If Jesus was a prophet?

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah:


There are many other people who were born in this same way, you did not read what <b>Church Father Origen says in the second century </b>, he lists a number of Pagan Gods<b> “who were in fact human beings”</b> who born of virgins: <b>Danae, Melanippe, Auge and Antiope.</b> Origin, Against Celsus 1, 37


According to Hinduism, Krishna too born of a Virgin, they have their history recorded books on these events. But that will not make Krishna as God the Creator, nor is the virgin birth of Jesus going to make him God or superior to others.


And since anyone is born of a women is a sinner according to the Bible, then you have to include Jesus because he was too born of a women, whether she was a virgin or not it does not really matter, because there are other people out there were born of a virgin.


Salam


Wael.

Jesus is the only to have ever been born from a virgin.


There is a magician in the US who recently "walked on water." Well, it was a trick using mirrors and point of view but nevertheless it looked like he walked on water.


Jesus, however, actually walked on water.

[Dan]

Bismillah


So if Jesus was not born with origianl sin then he was not FULLY human. ALL of humanity as a decendant of Adam bears the burden of this sin, according to Christianity. Jesus is a decendant of Adam (to say he was not also denies his humanity), so he must have had origianl sin.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah


So if Jesus was not born with origianl sin then he was not FULLY human. ALL of humanity as a decendant of Adam bears the burden of this sin, according to Christianity. Jesus is a decendant of Adam (to say he was not also denies his humanity), so he must have had origianl sin.

Jesus doesn't bear original sin because of his being born of the virgin by the Holy Spirit. No other human has ever had this. Then, the rest of Jesus' life, he never sinned.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

the rest of Jesus' life, he never sinned.

it doesnt really matter, because according to jesus there is someone else who is greater than all of those who were born of a women. and jesus was born of a women.


Matthew 11:11 "Verily I (Jesus) say unto you, <b>b]Among them that are born of women
</b> there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist.[/b]" <b>Not even Jesus who was born of a woman.</b>


Job 25:4: "How then can <b>man be justified with God?</b>
<b>or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?"
</b> <b>Once again, Jesus (pbuh) was born of a woman. Shall we now apply this to him? Not as far as Muslims are concerned.</b>


Salam


Wael.

[Curious Christian]

Here is what Jesus says about John the Baptist.

John 5
31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne <b>witness to the truth.</b>(What truth?? John preached that Jesus was the Lamb of God! I guess Jesus says he was "true.")
34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. <b>37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.</b> 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. <b>39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. </b> (What? The scriptures testify of Jesus?)
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.


41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. <b>46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. </b>(What? Moses wrote about Jesus?)
47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Here Jesus claims to be salvation.

John 6
22 On the following day, when the people who were standing on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other boat there, except that one which His disciples had entered, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with His disciples, but His disciples had gone away alone— 23 however, other boats came from Tiberias, near the place where they ate bread after the Lord had given thanks— 24 when the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, nor His disciples, they also got into boats and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus. 25 And when they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, “Rabbi, when did You come here?”


26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. <b>27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.” </b>


28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”


29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”


30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”


32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 <b>For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” </b>


34 Then they said to Him, <i>“Lord, give us this bread always.” </i>


35 And Jesus said to them, <b>“I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. </b> 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

In your quote of Matthew 11 you added the words, "<b>Not even Jesus who was born of a woman.</b>" The understanding is that John the Baptist and all other man was born of natural...not super-natural means.


Job is giving a prophecy that Jesus, the Redeemer and Lamb of God will be born of super natural means.

[Dan]

Bismillah


Okay, so Jesus is not FULLY human then because original sin is the burden of EVERY human. In the Christian concept of humanity, sin is one thing that ALL humans have in common. That is being human.

[reepicheep]

Bismillah


Okay, so Jesus is not FULLY human then because original sin is the burden of EVERY human. In the Christian concept of humanity, sin is one thing that ALL humans have in common. That is being human.

Adam and Eve were born without original sin, yet they were fully human.


Likewise, Jesus was also born without original sin, yet was also fully human.

[Dan]

Bismillah


Yet they sinned. Their nature was sinful. They were also not "born." They never passed through a birth canal. Jesus did. Jesus is not like Adam in that sense because he was a fetus, a baby, a child, a teenager, then a man. Adam was Created as a man.


It was their sin that caused all the following humans to HAVE to bear the burden of that sin. Jesus was born after Adam, hence...

[Curious Christian]

Dan. You have the answer.


All men sin because all me are sinfull. God, Jesus incarnate was tempted like every other man yet he never sinned. That is why he is the perfect sacrifice, the only acceptable sacrifice without blemish. He is the bread of life.


Adam was created without original sin because Adam and Eve commited the original sin in the Garden. Every human sense was born through the birth canal (or C section if you want to get particular).

[Dan]

Bismillah


I know I have the answer. I'm just wondering why it is hard to see this contradiction.


"All men sin because all me are sinfull." Jesus was a man. Then you say that Jesus did not sin. Does not follow. We can just chalk it up to my ignorance.