Why Islam?

[Dan]

Bismillah


What is so hard about understanding that these passages are NOT the Qur'an. The Qur'an is in ARABIC and has always been. What is in english is a rough interpretation of the Arabic. Since there are many, many Arabic words and phrases that do not exactly translate into english, differences wil result. If a person says that they have memorized the Qur'an, they will always mean that they have done so in the Arabic language, not the interpretation of their native tongue.


You have a found a dicrepency between two translators. Thanks for pointing that out. Maybe our resident Arabic to English translator can shed some light on this.


the english Gospel does not have the exact words spoken by Jesus so such a reveiw cannot be done. That is where the difference lies. This seems to me to be the point that wel mel is trying to show.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:


Assalamo ALikum brother,

the english Gospel does not have the exact words spoken by Jesus so such a reveiw cannot be done. That is where the difference lies. This seems to me to be the point that wel mel is trying to show.

Not only that brother, am also talking about <b>missing books and verses </b> when you compare between each VERSION of today's Bibles. I’ve asked Christians many times, which version do you consider to be the Word of God, and believe me no one was able to answer this simple question. Because they are not sure what was the original text all about.


Now Alhamdulelah, since the Original Arabic text of the Qur’an is available in our hands, we do not care much about the English translations, because we could get back to the source at anytime for better understanding, which is not the case with the Bible simply because the Christians themselves do not have access to the original as we do. Alhamdulelah.


Even hostile critics of Islam have grudgingly vouched for the purity of the Holy Qur'an:

"THERE IS PROBABLY IN THE WORLD <b>NO OTHER BOOK WHICH HAS REMAINED TWELVE CENTURIES (now fourteen) WITH SO PURE A TEXT."</b> — (Sir William Muir)

Christians honestly need to admit that it is a fact that today’s Bible is full of interpolation, fabrications and man-made stories that has nothing to do with God.


Mrs. <b>Ellen G. White, a "prophetess" of the Seventh Day Adventist Church</b>, in her Bible Commentary Vol. 1, page 14, has this confession to make about the fallibility of the "Holy Bible."

"THE BIBLE WE READ TODAY <b>IS THE WORK OF MANY COPYISTS </b> WHO HAVE IN MOST INSTANCES DONE THEIR WORK WITH MARVELLOUS ACCURACY. BUT <b>COPYISTS HAVE NOT BEEN INFALLIBLE</b>, AND GOD MOST EVIDENTLY HAS NOT SEEN <b>FIT TO PRESERVE THEM ALTOGETHER FROM ERROR IN TRANSCRIBING." </b>

She further says:

"I SAW THAT GOD HAD ESPECIALLY GUARDED THE BIBLE" YET WHEN COPIES OF IT WERE FEW, LEARNED MEN HAD IN SOME INSTANCES <b>CHANGED THE WORDS</b>, THINKING THAT THEY WERE MAKING IT PLAIN, WHEN <b>IN REALITY THEY WERE MYSTIFYING THAT WHICH WAS PLAIN</b>, BY CAUSING IT TO <b>LEAN TO THEIR ESTABLISHED VIEWS, WHICH WERE GOVERNED BY TRADITION."</b>

The mental malady is a cultivated one. This authoress and her followers can still trumpet from roof tops that <b>"Truly, the Bible is the infallible Word of God." "Yes, it is adulterated, but pure" "It is human, yet divine." </b>


Do words have any meaning in their language?


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

Dan wrote:


> You have a found a dicrepency between two translators. Thanks for pointing


> that out. Maybe our resident Arabic to English translator can shed some light on this.


I've checked out eleven different translations of the koran, and here's what I've found:


- two translations (Yusuf Ali and Hilali Khan) use the phrase "two or more".


- nine translations (Pickthal, Shakir, Irving, Palmer, Sher Ali, Khalifa, Arberry, Rodwell, and Sale) use the phrase "more than two" or similar wording.


Based on this, I've concluded that "more than two" is correct. But it still doesn't explain why Yusuf Ali and Hilali Khan translate the phrase differently.


I'll write more on this later.

[Dan]

Bismillah


Wow!


I do not understand where the difficulty in understanding is coming from for you. THE ENGLISH IS NOT THE QUR'AN!!! It never ever will be. The Qur'an is in ARABIC. It is "translated" into English to give a glimpse of what the Qur'an actually is. ANYONE, muslim or not, MUST learn Arabic to fully understand the concept of the Qur'an. To try to prove inconsistancies with interpretations will never, ever, ever, pursuade muslims who know that the QUR'AN IS IN ARABIC. Look at the preface of these interpretations (if you dare) and you will see men admitting that they are undertaking an impossibility. They readily admit that it is impossible to keep the brevity of the Qur'an while maintaining its deep messages when interpretted in another language. For the messages that they Qur'an has, one will have to write literally volumes in English. It was frustrating to realize myself as an English speaker but true. I have heard entire lectures discussing one word or phrase in the Qur'an and still only just brushing the top of the topic.


I have written alot to say:


THE QUR'AN IS IN THE ARABIC LANGUAGE *PERIOD*

[reepicheep]

OK, here is what I've learned about surah 4:11.


One correct translation of the first half of this verse from Arabic into English is as follows:


<b>PICKTHAL: Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two
, then theirs is two-thirds
of the inheritance, and if there be one (only)
then the half.
Surah 4:11a</b>


So, then, if a parent dies, then the daughters receive:


- half the estate, if there is one daughter


- no inheritance, if there are two daughters


- two thirds of the estate, if there are more than two daughters.


Islamic scholars realized that this is not fair, since if there are two daughters then they receive no inheritance. So, obviously, this verse must have been corrupted at some point (or, perhaps, it was revealed to Mohammad in corrupted form).


There are two reasonable ways in which this verse can be corrected:


(1) the phrase "more than two" can be changed to "two or more", or


(2) another phrase such as "if there are two daughters, then they receive XXX of the estate" could be inserted into the koran.


The problem with option two is that there is no indication of what share two daughters should receive. One possibility is that we take the share of one daughter (1/2 the estate) and three daughters (2/3 the estate) and do an average of these two numbers to come up with a share of 7/12 of the estate. But this would be conjecture only and little more than a guess.


So, Islamic scholars decided that the easiest solution is solution 1 above (i.e., correct this verse in the koran so that "more than two" becomes "two or more"). That is why some translators such as Yusuf Ali and Hilal Khan use the english phrase "two or more", rather than the erroneous phrase "more than two" which appears in the Arabic version of the koran.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

OK, here is what I've learned about surah 4:11.
One correct translation of the first half of this verse from Arabic into English is as follows:


<b>PICKTHAL: Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two
, then theirs is two-thirds
of the inheritance, and if there be one (only)
then the half.
Surah 4:11a</b>


So, then, if a parent dies, then the daughters receive:


- half the estate, if there is one daughter


- no inheritance, if there are two daughters


- two thirds of the estate, if there are more than two daughters.


Islamic scholars realized that this is not fair, since if there are two daughters then they receive no inheritance. So, obviously, this verse must have been corrupted at some point (or, perhaps, it was revealed to Mohammad in corrupted form).

Which Islamic scholars that <b>“realized that this is not faith”? </b> Could you please name <b>ONE OF THOSE SCGOLARS AND PROVIDE YOUR EVIDENCE IF YOU ARE TRUTHFUL</b>. Thanks.


I can only see total ignorance and lack of understanding of the Arabic language,


Alhamdulelah, Allah preserved the Arabic original text of the Qur'an for us to verify information at ANYTIME. and if there were any mistakes in the Qur’anic translations, it does not bother us much, because the original is preserved.. which is not the case with the Bible.


The Qur’an contains specific and detailed guidance regarding the division of the inherited wealth, among the rightful beneficiaries.


The Qur’anic verses that contain guidance regarding inheritance are:


* chapter 2 verse 180


* chapter 2 verse 240


* chapter 4 verse 7-9


* chapter 4 verse 19


* chapter 4 verse 33 and


* chapter 5 verse 106-108


Open up the Qur’an and read them to learn.


There are three verses in the Qur’an that broadly describe the share of close relatives chapter 4 verses 11, 12 and 176. open up your Qur’an (if you have one or if you really need to learn) and read them.:


After reading those verses you will see that in most of the cases, a woman inherits half of what her male counterpart inherits. However, this is not always the case. In case the deceased has left no ascendant or descendent but has left the uterine brother and sister, each of the two inherit one sixth. If the deceased has left children, both the parents that is mother and father get an equal share and inherit one sixth each. In certain cases, a woman can also inherit a share that is double that of the male. If the deceased is a woman who has left no children, brothers or sisters and is survived only by her husband, mother and father, the husband inherits half the property while the mother inherits one third and the father the remaining one sixth. In this particular case, the mother inherits a share that is double that of the father. It is true that as a general rule, in most cases, the female inherits a share that is half that of the male. For instance in the following cases:


1. daughter inherits half of what the son inherits,


2. wife inherits 1/8th and husband 1/4th if the deceased has no children.


3. Wife inherits 1/4th and husband 1/2 if the deceased has children


4. If the deceased has no ascendant or descendent, the sister inherits a share that is half that of the brother.


In Islam a woman has no financial obligation and the economical responsibility lies on the shoulders of the man. Before a woman is married it is the duty of the father or brother to look after the lodging, boarding, clothing and other financial requirements of the woman. After she is married it is the duty of the husband or the son. Islam holds the man financially responsible for fulfilling the needs of his family. In order to do be able to fulfill the responsibility the men get double the share of the inheritance. For example, if a man dies leaving about US$ One Hundred and Fifty Thousand, for the children (i.e one son and one daughter) the son inherits One Hundred Thousand and the daughter only Fifty Thousand. Out of the one hundred thousand which the son inherits, as his duty towards his family, he may have to spend on them almost the entire amount or say about eighty thousand and thus he has a small percentage of inheritance, say about twenty thousand, left for himself. On the other hand, the daughter, who inherits fifty thousand is not bound to spend a single penny on anybody. She can keep the entire amount for herself. Would you prefer inheriting one hundred thousand dollars and spending eighty thousand from it, or inheriting fifty thousand dollars and having the entire amount to yourself?

So, Islamic scholars decided

Again, which scholars who decided blah blah, <b>Christians missionaries</b>? :D


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

Wel_mel_2, nothing that you wrote has anything to do with the situation of there being exactly two daughters.


It appears you agree with surah 4:11 as it is written in arabic? In other words, if there are exactly two daughters, then the daughters receive no inheritance? If you don't agree, then please show me the verse from the koran that describes the inheritance which is given to two daughters..

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Wel_mel_2, nothing that you wrote has anything to do with the situation of there being exactly two daughters.

No no, seriously, you have to answer my question, am very very very interested to know <b>which Islamic scholars </b> that<b> “realized that this is not fair”</b>? Could you please name <b>ONE OF THOSE SCHOLARS AND PROVIDE YOUR EVIDENCE IF YOU ARE TRUTHFUL. </b> you must support your claims with some evidence, otherwise <b>do not spread lies</b>.

It appears you agree with surah 4:11 as it is written in arabic?

<b>Do you know what are the exact Arabic terms used in this verse ??? </b>

In other words, if there are exactly two daughters, then the daughters receive no inheritance? If you don't agree, then please show me the verse from the koran that describes the inheritance which is given to two daughters..

i was just trying to make you understand the law if inheritane according to Islam, but it seems you are not interested. however to clarify further chapter 4:11 we read:


"Allah enjoins you about [the share of inheritance of] your children: A male's share shall equal that of two females -- in case there are only daughters, more than two shall have two-thirds of what he [i.e. the deceased] has left. And if there be only one daughter, she shall get half [of the wealth] -- and if the deceased has children, the parents shall inherit a sixth each of what he [i.e. the deceased] has left, and if he has no children and the parents are his heirs then his mother shall receive a third, and if he has brothers and sisters then the mother's share is the same one-sixth. [These shares shall be distributed] after carrying out any will made by the deceased or payment of any debt owed [by him]."


The sentence (Allah enjoins you about [the share of inheritance of] your children) is a preamble for the following statement (male's share shall equal that of two females).


The word (AWLAD) includes both male and female children. Thus, the whole statement shall mean: "Allah enjoins you about your children , the share of each male child from among them shall be equal to that of two females".


The statement (in case there are only daughters 2 or more) is a parenthetical clause stating an exception to the rule "A male's share shall equal that of two females" . This exception has changed the implication that If the deceased has only sons or only daughters, all of the deceased's wealth shall be inherited by whoever is present. Now it means that if there be only daughters, <b>whether two or more</b>, they shall not share the whole of the deceased's wealth but shall share two-thirds of the wealth left by the deceased.


in short, according to MOST Muslim scholars (by the way, i could list their names if you wish) explains the share of children as follows:


The deceased's children shall share in the balance of the property and assets of the deceased, after the stipulated shares of all the inheritors of the first category have been given. The share of the deceased's children is as follows:


- If there are both sons and daughters -- the share of each son shall be double that of each daughter, in the balance of the property and assets of the deceased after the shares of the first category of inheritors is given..


- If there are only sons -- all the sons shall share equally in the balance of the property and assets of the deceased after the shares of the first category of inheritors is given.


- If there is only one son -- he shall take all the balance of the property and assets of the deceased after the shares of the first category of inheritors is given.


- If there is only one daughter (and no other children) -- she shall get half of the balance of the property and assets of the deceased after the shares of the first category of inheritors is given.


- If there be <b>two or more daughters (and no sons) </b> -- they shall share equally in two-thirds of the balance of the property and assets of the deceased after the shares of the first category of inheritors is given.


Now, if you read the Arabic words of this verse clearly it could means 2 or more. there is no problem of understanding this in Arabic at all.


Now, what the Bible have to say about Inheritance reep ?????


Let us look at <b>"If a man dies and leaves no son</b>, turn his inheritance over to his daughter. (Numbers 27:8)"


So in other words, women (daughters, sisters and mothers) don't inherit anything<b> if a man (son) is present.</b>


One of the most important differences between the Quran and the Bible is their attitude towards female inheritance of the property of a deceased relative. According to Numbers 27:1-11, widows and sisters don't inherit at all. Daughters can inherit only if their deceased father <b>had no sons</b>. Otherwise the sons receive the entire inheritance. Among the pagan Arabs before Islam, inheritance rights were confined exclusively to the male relatives. The Quran abolished all these unjust customs and gave all the female relatives their just share. Alhamdulelah.


Salam


Wael.

[NaSra]

Bismilah


Asalamalaikum


The english is not the Quraan?

[Dan]

Bismillah


As Salam alaikum


The english is an interpretation of what is truly said in Arabic. As one's learning of the Arabic language, including grammar, deepens, a person can see why the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic. There are subtleties that are not present in the English interpretation. In order to get even close to the full meaning the English interpretation would need to be volumes in order to explain the Arabic nuances.