Quran's Origin?

[Curious Christian]

Do the original written copies of the Quran still exist today? If not then what is oldest surviving copy and how old is it and how has it been maintained?


EDIT: Actually I should say original <b>copy.</b>

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Do the original written copies of the Quran still exist today?

<b>"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption).</b> (Quran, 15:9)"


Yes CC, the entire original Quran do exist today. In fact there are several copies of the Uthmani original text to be found in <b>Topkapi Museum, Istanbul, Turkey.</b> , in <b>al-Hussein mosque in Cairo</b>. And another copy to be found in in <b>Tashkent, Uzbekistan</b>.





Salam


Wael

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah:


<b>"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption).</b> (Quran, 15:9)"


Yes CC, the entire original Quran do exist today. In fact there are several copies of the Uthmani original text to be found in <b>Topkapi Museum, Istanbul, Turkey.</b> , in <b>al-Hussein mosque in Cairo</b>. And another copy to be found in in <b>Tashkent, Uzbekistan</b>.





Salam


Wael

Are those the original texts written by the hand of Mohammed?

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Are those the original texts written by the hand of Mohammed?

Please note that Muhammad pbuh was not able even to write his own name, it is a historical fact that Muhammad pbuh was <b>illiterate</b>, but the Qur’an was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. For example:


Whenever the Prophet received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. Prophet Muhammad pbuh could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur’an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur’an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (pbuh).


Salam


Wael.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah:


Please note that Muhammad pbuh was not able even to write his own name, it is a historical fact that Muhammad pbuh was <b>illiterate</b>, but the Qur’an was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. For example:


Whenever the Prophet received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. Prophet Muhammad pbuh could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur’an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur’an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (pbuh).


Salam


Wael.

So the versions in existence today are those original manuscrips which were written under Mohammed's direct supervison?

Bismillah:


<b>"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption).</b> (Quran, 15:9)"


Yes CC, the entire original Quran do exist today. In fact there are several copies of the Uthmani original text to be found in <b>Topkapi Museum, Istanbul, Turkey.</b> , in <b>al-Hussein mosque in Cairo</b>. And another copy to be found in in <b>Tashkent, Uzbekistan</b>.





Salam


Wael

I googled that version to read more about it and found several discusions about it.


Doubters said the following:


<b>This document is written in Kufic (also known as al-Khatt al-Kufi) script. Coins in the British Museum show that the first coins using the Kufic script date from the mid to end of the 8th century (750-800 A.D.). The only script used during and after Muhammad's days was the Jazm script.</b>


Any validity to that statement?

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Doubters said the following:


This document is written in Kufic (also known as al-Khatt al-Kufi) script. Coins in the British Museum show that the first coins using the Kufic script date from the mid to end of the 8th century (750-800 A.D.). The only script used during and after Muhammad's days was the Jazm script.


Any validity to that statement?

could you please provide the source of this statement?


To make things simple and short, the story is that the whole Qur'an was written during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad pbuh., <b>but it was not in the form of one whole book</b> as you see in this photo. it was written on leaves, sheep skins etc <b>plus it was engraved in the hearts of the followers of Islam</b>. The Qur’an later was collected by the caliphs of Islam after the death of Prophet Muhammad pbuh and was kept in one whole book.


Salam


WAel.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah:


could you please provide the source of this statement?


To make things simple and short, the story is that the whole Qur'an was written during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad pbuh., <b>but it was not in the form of one whole book</b> as you see in this photo. it was written on leaves, sheep skins etc <b>plus it was engraved in the hearts of the followers of Islam</b>. The Qur’an later was collected by the caliphs of Islam after the death of Prophet Muhammad pbuh and was kept in one whole book.


Salam


WAel.

It wasn't a pro Islamic site were I found that...but again, I've found several things on site like these which you've proven false. Here is the whole quote for your review and link.

Islam doesn't even have an original Qur'an. It was made up supposedly from "memory" and a few scraps found under a bed. This was about 150 - 200 years after Muhammad died at his wife Ayish's home in Medina, and he was lowered into a hole in the ground, where he remains.
Zaid b. Thabit said: “The Prophet died and the Qur’an had not been assembled into a single place.” (p. 118, Ahmad b. `Ali b. Muhammad al `Asqalani, ibn Hajar, "Fath al Bari", 13 vols, Cairo, 1939/1348, volume 9, page 9)


Zuhri reports, 'We have heard that many Qur'an passages were revealed but that those who had memorized them fell in the Yemama fighting. Those passages had not been written down, and following the deaths of those who knew them, were no longer known; nor had Abu Bakr, nor `Umar nor `Uthman as yet collected the texts of the Qur'an.


“During the battle of Yamama, 450 reciters of the Quran were killed.” (The True Guidance, An Introduction To Quranic Studies, part 4 [Light of Life - P.O. BOX 13, A-9503 Villach, Austria], p. 47- citing Ibn Kathir’s Al-Bidaya wa al-Nibaya, chapter on Battle of Yamama)


Muhammad's child wife said this after Muhammad died:


"The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper."


References: Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. vol. 6. page 269; Sunan Ibn Majah, page 626; Ibn Qutbah, Tawil Mukhtalafi 'l-Hadith (Cairo: Maktaba al-Kulliyat al-Azhariyya. 1966) page 310; As-Suyuti, ad-Durru 'l-Manthur, vol. 2. page 13


As to the Taurat (Torah), Jewish scribes painstakingly copied it via a system of checking, double checking and adding each letter on each line. Any attempt to change something in the Torah would have resulted in immediate discovery and condemnation. And copies of the Torah from around the world agree exactly.


This same quality of transmission cannot be said of the Islamic Qur'an. The Islamic Qur'an was written down from 3rd and 4th hand accounts; and from a few thoughts written on scrap papers --and compiled over 150 years after Muhammad died in 632 A.D. The oldest Qur'an dates from around 790 A.D. (after Jesus), and it is in the British Library. That's 158 years after Muhammad’s death. See corrupted Qur'an here .


Muslims often claim that the manuscript of the Qur'an housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey is one of the oldest sources. Muslims say it dates from around 650 A.D. There is an insurmountable problem with this. This document is written in Kufic (also known as al-Khatt al-Kufi) script. Coins in the British Museum show that the first coins using the Kufic script date from the mid to end of the 8th century (750-800 A.D.). The only script used during and after Muhammad's days was the Jazm script.


The Samarkand (aka: Othman Koran) manuscript in the Soviet Library in Tashkent, Uzbekistan also uses the Kufic script, indicating late 8th century. Many believe it is the oldest in existence. Only About one-third of the original survives.

Link


(again...I googled and found this...wasn't seeking anti Islamic site but still wanted to ask the question)

[Dan]

Bismillah


it is very hard for us today to understand oral societies and the veracity of their memories, even still they are people today who are from written societies who memorize the Qur'an completely.


The entire Qur'an was memroized by many of the Prophet's companions. If any one person should slip in the slightest, all the other memorizers would correct this discrepancy. Yes the Qur'an was written at the time of the Prophet saws but was not compiled until after his death. So the complete Qur'an was written but not in one complete book. At the time there was no need. It was memorized by many people.


Only when some of these people were killed in battle was there a realization that it would be beneficial to have the entire Qur'an compiled in one place.


I appreciate your admition that this is not really an "Islamic site" to say the least. There are other threads that discuss this issue in great depth. Our board has a search engine that you might find useful for this and other issues. Most of the topics that are questioned have usually been questioned before so if you want a speedier answer you could try to search for the topic while you wait for us muslims to reply. : )