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saima · 07-09-2006, 08:15 PM

The concept of God in Christianity

By Dr.Zakir Naik

Before we discuss ‘the concept of God in Christianity’, I would like to make a few points clear. Islam is the only Non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (peace be upon him). No Muslim, is ‘a Muslim’ if he does not believe in Jesus (peace be upon him). We believe that he was one of the mightiest messengers of Allah Subhana Wa Taalah - of Almighty God. We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe. We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission. We believe that he healed those born blind, and lepers with God’s permission. The Christians and Muslims, we are going together hand in hand, but there are parting of ways.

There are many Christians who say that ‘Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), he was Almighty God, he himself claimed Divinity’. Infact, if you read the Bible, there is not a single uneqvivocable statement in the whole Bible, where Jesus (peace be upon him) himself says, that ‘I am God’, or where he says ‘Worship me’. I would like to repeat that statement that there is not a single uneqvivocable statement in the complete Bible, where Jesus (peace be upon him) himself says that… ‘I am God’ or, where he says… ‘Worship me’. Infact if you read the Bible it is mentioned in the Gospel of John, Ch.No. 14, V.No.28, Jesus (peace be upon him) said – ‘My Father is greater than I’ In the Gospel of John, Ch. No.10, V.No. 29 ‘My father is greater than all’. In the Gospel of Mathew Ch.No.12 V.No.28 “I cast out devil with Sprit of God’. Gospel of Luke, Ch. No. 11 V.No.20 “I with the finger of God, cast out devils’. Gospel of John, Ch.No.5 V.No.30 ‘I can of my own self do nothing - as I hear I judge, and my judgement is just, because I seek not my will, but the will of thy Father, who has sent me’. He never claimed Divinity. Infact he came to testify the pervious law. And he mentions in the Gospel of Mathew Ch.5 V.17 to Verse No. 20, ‘Think not that I am come to destroy the law and the Prophets - I am come not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, till the heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall not pass away from the law, untill all be fulfilled. And whosoever therefore, shall break one of the least commandments and teach men to do so, will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. And whosoever shall keep them, and teach them so, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. For verily, unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharasees, in no way shall you enter the Kingdom of Heaven. So Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) said, ‘that If you people want to enter Heaven, you have to keep each and every commandment of Prophet Moses (peace be upon him). You have to follow each and every law given in the Old Testament, including the verses I quoted earlier that ‘there is one God, and you should not do idol worship, you should not make any graven image of Him’. Jesus (peace be upon him), he never said that he was God. Infact he said ‘He was sent by God. He was a Prophet of God’. It is mentioned in the Gospel of John, Ch.No. 14, V.No.24, ‘The words that you hear, are not mine, but it is my Father’s, who has sent me’. Gospel of John, Ch.No. 17, V.No.3 ‘This is eternal life, so that you may know there is one true God, and Jesus Christ, who Thou has sent’. And it is mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Ch.No.19, V.No.16 and 17, that one of the persons approaches Jesus (pbuh), and says ‘Good Master, what good things shall I do, that I shall attain eternal life’. Jesus (peace be upon him) replies in V.No.17 of Gospel of Mathew, Ch.No.19 – ‘And Jesus said upto him, ‘Why thou callest me good? For there is none good, except One, that is God - And if you want to enter life, keep the commandments’. Jesus (peace be upon him) never said that if you want to go to heaven, you consider me as Almighty God. He never said that you believe that I will die for your sins – In fact he said, ‘You keep the commandments’. It is further mentioned in the book of Acts, Ch.No. 2 V.No.22 “O men of Israel, hear this, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God, amongst you, by miracles, and wonders and signs, which God did by him, in your presence, and you were witness’. It says, ‘Jesus of Nazareth a man approved by God, by miracles and wonders, which God did by him’. And when Jesus (peace be upon him) was asked, that ‘which is the first of the commandments’? he repeated verbitem what was said earlier by Moses (peace be upon him). It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mark, Ch. No. 12, V.No. 29, he said ‘Shama Israelo, Ada Ilahaino Ada Ihad’ It is a Hebrew quotation which means, ‘Hear Oh Israel, the Lord our God, is in one lord’. So if you read the Bible, you will understand the concept of God, in Christianity.

It reminds me of an incident where Maulana Rahmatullah Karanvi - he was having a discussion with a Christian missionary, who was trying to prove to Maulana Shahib that ‘Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) is God Almighty, and that Jesus (peace be upon him) died for the sins of human beings’. After a great deal of time, without any results, the discussion was continued. Later on, the servant of Maulana Shahib, he comes and whispers something in the Maulana’s ears. The Maulana’s face becomes sad - he starts crying. The Christian missionary asks, ‘Maulana Shahib, ‘what is the bad news?’. The Maulana Shahib said in a very sad tone, ‘My servant, he just gave me information, - he brought news, that Arch Angel Gabriel - he died’. The Christian missionary began to laugh loudly. ‘Maulana Shahib, you being such an intelligent person, how can you believe in such absurd things - Can Angels die?’ The Maulana Shahib said, ‘When God can die, why can’t Angels die?’ And the Christian missionary, without speaking a single word, he left – It is a battle of wits.

Curious Christian · 07-09-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:So Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) said, ‘that If you people want to enter Heaven, you have to keep each and every commandment of Prophet Moses (peace be upon him).

No he didn't. You've taken a verse out of context and applied untruth to it.

He Is Risen

1 Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them,[a] came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. 3 Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. 5 Then, as they were afraid and bowed their faces to the earth, they said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, 7 saying, ‘The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.’”

8 And they remembered His words. 9 Then they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them, who told these things to the apostles. 11 And their words seemed to them like idle tales, and they did not believe them. 12 But Peter arose and ran to the tomb; and stooping down, he saw the linen cloths lying[c] by themselves; and he departed, marveling to himself at what had happened.

13 Now behold, two of them were traveling that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was seven miles[d] from Jerusalem. 14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened. 15 So it was, while they conversed and reasoned, that Jesus Himself drew near and went with them. 16 But their eyes were restrained, so that they did not know Him.

17 And He said to them, “What kind of conversation is this that you have with one another as you walk and are sad?”[
e]

18 Then the one whose name was Cleopas answered and said to Him, “Are You the only stranger in Jerusalem, and have You not known the things which happened there in these days?”

19 And He said to them, “What things?”

So they said to Him, “The things concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a Prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to be condemned to death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened. 22 Yes, and certain women of our company, who arrived at the tomb early, astonished us. 23 When they did not find His body, they came saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said He was alive. 24 And certain of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said; but Him they did not see.”

25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.[/
b]

28 Then they drew near to the village where they were going, and He indicated that He would have gone farther. 29 But they constrained Him, saying, “Abide with us, for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent.” And He went in to stay with them.

30 Now it came to pass, as He sat at the table with them, that He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

32 And they said to one another, “Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?” 33 So they rose up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, 34 saying, “The Lord is risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!” 35 And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread.


36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.”
 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
 


40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[f] 41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?”
 42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.[g] 43 And He took it and ate in their presence.


44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”
 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. 


46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise[h] from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”


50 And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. 51 Now it came to pass, while He blessed them, that He was parted from them and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshiped Him,
 and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53 and were continually in the temple praising and[j] blessing God. Amen.


-The Muslim acertation that Jesus wasn't worshiped and wasn't God is a Muslim idea. Jesus himself admits that the entire OT is about him. It points to him. A people who need a King, High Priest and Redeemer.

wel_mel_2 · (This post was last modified: 07-10-2006, 01:41 AM by wel_mel_2.)

Bismillah:

Quote:-The Muslim acertation that Jesus wasn't worshiped and wasn't God is a Muslim idea. Jesus himself admits that the entire OT is about him. It points to him. A people who need a King, High Priest and Redeemer.

Was he the God of the OT? So am going to repeat the same question that I’ve asked on the other thread, if he was God then how come he did not know about the hour when it will be?

Jesus said that he was sent by God, he said that he cast out devil with the finger of God, he said all power is given into me, NOT HIS OWN
. am not sure how can anyone say that he is God when Jesus' power was not HIS OWN? do you believe that God is powerless?

Salam

Wael.

Curious Christian · 07-10-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:Bismillah:

Was he the God of the OT? So am going to repeat the same question that I’ve asked on the other thread, if he was God then how come he did not know about the hour when it will be?

Jesus said that he was sent by God, he said that he cast out devil with the finger of God, he said all power is given into me, NOT HIS OWN
. am not sure how can anyone say that he is God when Jesus' power was not HIS OWN? do you believe that God is powerless?

Salam

Wael.

The hour of his death? You state that Jesus didn't know the hour of his death?

Matthew 26

1 Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, that He said to His disciples, 2 “You know that after two days is the Passover, and the Son of Man will be delivered up to be crucified.”

He said to them, “Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a good work for Me. 11 For you have the poor with you always, but Me you do not have always. 12 For in pouring this fragrant oil on My body, she did it for My burial.

17 Now on the first day of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?” 

18 And He said, “Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, “My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.”’”

19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover.

20 When evening had come, He sat down with the twelve. 21 Now as they were eating, He said, “Assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me.”

22 And they were exceedingly sorrowful, and each of them began to say to Him, “Lord, is it I?”

23 He answered and said, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the dish will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Rabbi, is it I?”

He said to him, “You have said it.”

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 

27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new[c] covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

30 And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

It goes on and on. Jesus knew the hour of his death. He willfully submitted to that death on our behalf.

As a side note Wel Mel. Jesus, you say never claimed to be the Messiah or God. Why then does he say that his blood will be shed for remission of sins???

Dan · 07-10-2006, 04:14 PM

Bismillah

the hour meaning Day of Resurrection

Curious Christian · 07-10-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:Bismillah

the hour meaning Day of Resurrection

Give me the verse or passage you and Wel Mel refer to about this. I think I missed it before.

Dan · 07-10-2006, 09:07 PM

Bismillah

I am sorry that I do not know the specific passage. I just know from the context of the discussion that this is what wel mel is referring. Am I wrong, akhi?

wel_mel_2 · 07-11-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:Give me the verse or passage you and Wel Mel refer to about this. I think I missed it before.

read Matthew 24:36

it says on that day, thay hour, knows no man, no not that angels, neither the SON, but the father

Salam

Wael

wel_mel_2 · 07-11-2006, 01:52 AM

Bismillah:

am sorry when i quoted you the above verse was from my memory, but the exact quotation from the New International Version of the Bible says:

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 

Salam

Wael.

Curious Christian · 07-11-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:Bismillah:

am sorry when i quoted you the above verse was from my memory, but the exact quotation from the New International Version of the Bible says:

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 

Salam

Wael.

The New King James has the following:

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[a] but My Father only.

King James

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

What does your copy say?

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