Mecca

[arclight]

I was browsing through wikipedia, and read the piece on Mecca


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca#Non-M..._and_Mecca


In a way I shouldn't be surprised that non-muslims aren't allowed in, but then again I would have thought it would also be in the interests of Islam to let others see it. If the effect, that Muslims who visit there claim it has, is so great, then shouldn't chance that such a visit could help convert a non-muslim be jumped at? Also there is the definition of who should see it. Obviously I don't know the basis of this law, but if it refers to non-believers, then should that mean only muslims? And what of people that wouldn't call themselves muslims, but do believe in God/Allah, and that Mohammed was a prophet?


Also what do you think of the number of high rise hotels that seem to surround it? Even as a non-muslim, I find it crass and offensive that someone should be able to roll out of bed and look out on such a holy place from his bedroom window. Not only that, but I would suspect that the hotel will be charging extra for such rooms. Making money directly out of the Ka'bah in such a way just seems plain wrong.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam arclight, coming back with much good points to raise.


Actully, this post is full of important points to attend to, but allow me - or hopefully one of my brothers and sisters will be able to reply before me- to reply tomorrow Insh a Allah. I m soooo :sleep2: getting late here in Cairo. :sleep2: :wavey:

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam again arclight


It happened to me a lot, I found that the replies are present in my mind couldnt go to sleep.


1. Ka`ba is not a tourist attraction it is a place of worship.


2. The effect u r talking about is a fruit or let us be more precise is Allah's answer to the supplication of Abraham who said:


""O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House (the Ka'bah at Makkah); in order, O our Lord, that they may perform the prayers, so fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits so that they may give thanks.


" (Quran 14:37)


3. Being a place of worship, to be more precise for example circling Ka`ba equals prayer and the rules that we must observe during prayer applies there,i.e we cannt talk other than quran or supplications, we cannt interrupt the circiling, ..etc.


4. A non Muslim is impure due to taking associates with Allah, or other form of polytheism. Such impurity disallows a non Muslim for example to touch the Quran. When I say touch Quran here I mean the one in Arabic that does not contain Tafseer (explanation of Quran) or the translation of the meaning. The other forms such as translation of the meaning can be touched by an impure person including a non Muslim. As a Muslim may be under the same state on an number of cases that I dont want to discuss now so as to avoid taking u off topic.


5. Being in such state of impurity makes a non believer prohibited to enter into the Haram boundary. Actually this is a command of Allah.


6. Arclight, we dont need really to strive to make an impression on anyone to believe in Allah the way Allah Asked us to believe. One who believes is the winner and not anyone else.


7. Making money is not bad arclight, as u may understand from the verse I posted, Prophet Abraham prayer and peace be upon him, inovked upon Allah to sustain residents of this city and this shall continue till the day after. Haj and Umra is a source of income to those who reside in those cities and nothing is wrong with that. As for such hotels, I stayed in one of them a couple of times, seeing ka`ba from my room never detered me from hurrying up quite ahead of time to secure a good place right in Ka`ba for prayer. It never even attracted me to spend more time in the room. But rather we still hurry to spend as much time in Ka`ba arclight.


8. Stying in such hotels actually trigger more rememberance to Allah, praising Allah and being so grateful that Allah Provided us enough resources to be able to stay there.


9. Allah Created people with different monetary status, so why doesnt one who can afford spend more money there, while those with low income can still find adquate and affordable accomodation? Allah Likes to see the effect of His bounty on people. If I dont spend there, where do I spend?


Hope I answered your questions.


Whatever is correct is from Allah and may Allah Forgive any mistakes.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:


more points to add regarding why non Muslim is not allowed in Mecca and Madinah:


please note that here in China where I live not all citizens are permitted to certain restricted areas. In every country there are certain areas where a common citizen of that country cannot enter. Only a citizen who is enrolled in the military or those who are connected with the defense of the country are allowed in such areas. Similarly Islam is a Universal Religion for the entire world and for all human beings. The restricted areas of Islam are the two holy cites of Makkah and Madinah. Here only those who believe in Islam and are involved in the defense of Islam i.e. the Muslims are allowed.


It would be <b>illogical</b> for a common citizen to object to the restriction on entering these areas. Similarly it is not appropriate for non-Muslims to object to the restriction on non-Muslims against entering Makkah and Madinah.


Also here are some points to ponder.


1- Whenever a person travels to a foreign country he has to first apply for a visa. Every country has its own rules, regulations and requirements for issuing a visa. Unless their criteria are satisfied they will not issue a visa.


2- One of the countries which is very strict in issuing a visa is the United States of America, especially when issuing visas to citizens of the third world. They have several conditions and requirements to be fulfilled before they issue a visa.


3- When I visited Philippines for example, it was required by the Government that i must apply for something called NBI clearance in which they will investigate about my person before issuing the visa and it takes so long time and money too. But I have no choice i want to visit Philippines so I have to abide by the rules. I cannot say that this NBI clearance is stupid thing or wrong. Only if I agree with their requirements and conditions will I be permitted to enter the country.


4- In conclusion, the Visa required for <b>any human being to enter Makkah or Madina </b> is to say with his lips, <b>La ila ha illallah Muhammed ur Rasulullah </b> meaning that ‘there is no God but Allah and Muhammed (pbuh) is His Messenger.’


Once you fulfill this condition, then you are most welcome to Makkah and Madinah. No visa charge required.


Salam


Wael.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam Curious

And what of people that wouldn't call themselves muslims, but do believe in God/Allah, and that Mohammed was a prophet?

Rgarding this point in particular, if a person believes as such, he/she shouldnt delay taking the shahada and declare him/herself a Muslim. Because no one guarantees to live till he/she does. Once the person believes in such a manner, fully convinced deep inside the heart, aware of Islam as much as possible, he/she should take the testimony of faith in order to rescue him/herself rather than wasting the chance.

[arclight]

I can well understand the need to stop it becoming a tourist attraction, and isn't what I was intending.


TBH I think it was surprise more than anything. I've been to Lourdes in France and,although I'm not catholic. I was disgusted with the level of commercialisation there. I don't see anything wrong with making money, but I do believe that profiteering out of someones beliefs and religion is wrong.


If you ask me there should be a building code that prohibits buildings exceeding a certain height, within a certain radius of Mecca. Just my two'penneth.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam arclight

I was browsing through wikipedia, and read the piece on Mecca


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca#Non-M..._and_Mecca


Also what do you think of the number of high rise hotels that seem to surround it? [/u]Not only that, but I would suspect that the hotel will be charging extra for such rooms. Making money directly out of the Ka'bah in such a way just seems plain wrong.

Sobhan Allah, I thought to reply here and share this with u. Two days ago, I met a relative who has just been back from Umra (Mecca). He stayed in one of those hotels. Imagine, he just repeated those same words of yours that i bolded and underlined. He exactly felt the same. He even added that he is totally against those 5,6 and 7 star hotels rising up in the place. He told me that the 4 Seasons is opened there. He felt that this over luxurious is ripping off the sprituality of the place.


Arclight, it was like i was just hearing your words.


Thought to share it with u.

[arclight]

Did you tell him a kafir agreed with him? ^_^


Obviously I've never been to Mecca, but I have been to Lourdes in France. Although it isn't such a central part of Christianity, as Mecca is to Islam, many people to make pilgrimages there. The extent of commercialisation around there I found disgusting, it was almost like Disneyland (in fact the walk upto the church seemed eerily similar to walking upto Cinderella's Castle), with every shop selling Christianity related tat. One shop even sold flashing statues of the virgin Mary.


Taking advantage of someones religious beliefs like that, which ever version of Gods message they follow, is plain wrong. Even of you don't believe it, you should at least respect it.

[Dan]

Bismillah


Yup.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Yes arclight i told him that a kafir agreed with him. He even went further to tell me how he feels imporper that they provide speakers in the room to be able to follow the prayer taking place in the haram (masjed). But as for me, my humble opinion is that there are times when one is really very ill to go down to the masjed. Of course, one strives, even when ill, not to miss a prayer in haram. This is something not to be missed for the major reward. Also there is no such thing as islamic related tats to be sold there, merely prayer mats for us to take back home as present. But they never do commercialize on the place. O yes, u might get embroided things to hand on walls with the door of Ka`aba, or ayahs of Quran embroided on velvet. BUt this u can get anywhere else in the world. However, his only concern is that the over luxury takes away the spirituality. But why do u have to stay in the room? When I was there last time, I did stay in one of those, i must admit. BUt i hardly was in the room. Off for prayer with short breaks for food in the room then sleep to wake up again. Take in mind that the numbers are growing largely and they need to accomodate people.