06-14-2006, 03:29 AM
Quote:we understand from the verse in general that we should not worship any of God's creation, including Jesus
Salam
Wael.
That is where we differ. Jesus is God and isn't His creation.
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Read the Bible for "Guidance and Light"?
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 That is where we differ. Jesus is God and isn't His creation.
06-14-2006, 06:12 AM
Quote:That is where we differ. Jesus is God and isn't His creation. - The logic of what you are saying is that ,God was given birth too, he (God) was then a Helpless small baby ? God was made to Die at the hands of Mortals. JEsus is God's creation Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father <b>which sent me,</b> he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man [Jesus] must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
06-14-2006, 12:06 PM
Quote:- The logic of what you are saying is that ,God was given birth too, he (God) was then a Helpless small baby ? Puppet I am sorry that you don't understand the nature of God in three persons. I'd encourage you to read the previous post I started about the subject carefully and examine the Bible for answers regarding. Bismillah Quote:Muslimah wrote: Do u mean that the holy spirit is responsible for preserving the scripture, does this make it better than the rest of the parts of god? Also if each part has certain responsibilities, who is in charge of coordinating to ensure that no part transgresses over the other, and most important which part is then higher than the other? Who initially decided on the responsibilities assigned to each one of them? And u still say them as one really????????? :unsure:
06-16-2006, 01:14 PM
Quote:Bismillah Good questions. Some them cannot be known by we humans. God is all-powerfull and even in some respects incomprehensible to human intellect. <b>Do u mean that the holy spirit is responsible for preserving the scripture, does this make it better than the rest of the parts of god?</b>No. God, in that he is One, cannot have one part be better than another. <b>Also if each part has certain responsibilities, who is in charge of coordinating to ensure that no part transgresses over the other, and most important which part is then higher than the other?</b> God is perfect and without fault or any transgressions. This is not a ancient Greek like polytheism thing. This is One God. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit cannot and will not trangress one-another. <b>Who initially decided on the responsibilities assigned to each one of them?</b> The three persons of the God head always have been and always will be. In perfect harmony before the dawn of time. <b>And u still say them as one really?????????</b> Yes. I know the Trinity is hard to explain and hard to accept. I, myself, am weak in my knowledge on a lot of things. I know that as humans we can't fully comprehend the nature of God. This is why nobody can see God. When Moses was on Mount Sinai receiving the Law from God Moses saw only the backside of God's glory and was forever transformed by it. 
06-17-2006, 03:46 AM
Bismillah: Quote:<b>Do u mean that the holy spirit is responsible for preserving the scripture, does this make it better than the rest of the parts of god?</b>No. God, in that he is One, cannot have one part be better than another. yet Jeses said that the father is <b>GREATER</b> than him. so there is one greater than the other. which gives clear indication that they are NOT equal. Quote:This is why nobody can see God. When Moses was on Mount Sinai receiving the Law from God Moses saw only the backside of God's glory and was forever transformed by it. you know well that people have seen, walked and talked to Jesus pbuh during his lifetime. and yet you say he is God. but again you mentioned in the above statement that <b>NOBODY CAN SEE GOD.</b> Salam Wael
06-17-2006, 03:15 PM
Quote:Bismillah: God had to humiliate Himself and become fully man for people to see him. As far as John 14:28 is concerned I'd say the following: "My Father is greater than I." This statement must be understood in light of the witness of this Gospel fo the full deity of the Son, His equality and oneness with the Father (v. 9; 1:1; 10:30). The Son voluntarily veiled His glory here to follow the way of humble obedience. <b>Phil: 2: 6-11</b> 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Bismillah: first of all lat me thank you so much for this beautiful discussion. Quote:God had to humiliate Himself and become fully man for people to see him. to me if God Almighty "humiliate Himself and become <b>FULLY</b> man", then he is not God anymore. God need NOT to come down to HIS CREATION in order for them to see Him. Quote:As far as John 14:28 is concerned I'd say the following: Why the Bible always means something different than what it says? The father is greater than Jesus is <b>obvious </b> in many of Jesus’ statements which appeared in the Bible. To mention few: "But of that day and hour <b>knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son </b>, but the father." (Mark 13:32, and Matt. 24:36) "Verily, verily I say unto you, <b>the Son can do nothing </b> of himself, but what he seeth the father do..." (John 5:19) <b>"I can of mine own self do nothing</b>: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) "I ascend unto <b>my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God</b>." (John 20:17) "<b>My God, my God</b>, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46) I LOVE THESE VERSES, Jesus clearly declared that he have a God. Which prove to me at least that he is NOT GOD. "Why callest thou me good? <b>There is none good but one, that is God</b>..." Luke 18:19 "That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. <b>It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He but says to it 'Be', and it is." </b> said the Qur'an (19:34, 35) "And they say, 'the All-Merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' <b>You have indeed advanced something hideous</b>. <b>The heavens are well nigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son;</b> <b>and it behooves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in the heavens and earth but he comes to the All-Merciful as a servant." </b> (Qur'an 19:88-93) "Truly <b>the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then said He unto him, 'Be', and he was." </b> (Qur'an 3:59) "People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the Truth. <b>The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him.</b> So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian." (Qur'an 4:171) Salam Wael
06-18-2006, 07:21 AM
Bismillah salam Curious Quote:Good questions. Some them cannot be known by we humans. God is all-powerfull and even in some respects incomprehensible to human intellect. Again, if one part is responsible for example only about preserving the scripture, while the other is in charge of sending rain, the third for giving life and death. To me the second and third are more important. Cannt u see this Curious? What is even more important is that if one part assumes a duty that makes the other two parts incapable of carrying out the same duty. I know u would say the three of them compliment each other. Yet one part of God is incapable of something which is totally against the nature of God. The duty they are charged with must give some superiortiy. And when u say before dawn, u mean that they hold a meeting and decide who does what before dawn? Another point that we need to dig into here is that, when one part is carrying the duty, where are the other two parts? are they resting? God does not rest. God Is Domineering over the Worlds. Just thinking in a loud voice
07-10-2006, 04:52 AM
On June 12th, Wel_mel_2 wrote: Quote:if you watch film, "Banned from the Bible" on the History Channel. According to this documentary film, some of Saint Peter's apocalypse were banned from the current Bible, and these Epistles contain what Islam claims - that Jesus didn't get crucified on the cross and it only appeared that he was. This banned part also says that Jesus was standing next to the cross laughing. These are the parts of the Bible that only few people in the world know about. OK, I've taken your advice, obtained a copy of the documentary, and have watched the relevant portions. The Second Apocalypse of Peter is discussed for 50 seconds at the end of the "Banned from the Bible" documentary (starting at about the 1:27 hour mark on the tape). The Apocalypse states that Jesus was pure God and not in any way man. So, then, both Christians and Muslims would consider the 2nd Apocalypse of Peter to be heresy. According to the Apocalypse, the human body of Jesus was kind of like a puppet that Jesus (as God) controlled. The reason Jesus was laughing by the cross was that he was amused that the crucifiers thought they were hurting Him, when in reality they were incapable of hurting Jesus because Jesus is 100% God and 0% man. Because the 2nd Apocalypse of Peter claims that Jesus is not man, it is not compatible with Christian theology. But you are mistaken if you think this document is compatible with Muslim theology. And it certainly doesn't state (as Muslims claim) that another person was crucified in the place of Jesus. |
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