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I have many questions.
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 Quote:...how can we miss him if we look? Looks like you're not <i>seeking</i> Him after all. You are <i>looking</i> for a god to bow down to your conception of Him. God doesn't conform to what man wants him to be. But you must conform to what He wants you to be. If not this side of the grave, then certainly you will conform on the other side. <b>When his Lord said unto him: Surrender! he said: I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds.</b> 2:131 
04-12-2006, 10:52 PM
Quote:Looks like you're not <i>seeking</i> Him after all. You are <i>looking</i> for a god to bow down to your conception of Him. God doesn't conform to what man wants him to be. But you must conform to what He wants you to be. If not this side of the grave, then certainly you will conform on the other side. Not at all. Did I ever say I was 'Seeking' a God? I had an original conception of God that was like the Christian concept. It was all I knew. When I left that fold to remove what I believed to be the thing actually seperating me from God, it was through meditation, contemplation, and prayer that this Concept of God evolved in my spirit. Assumptions are dangerous - thank God this one was not critical, but it is a good practice to ask a question before making a statement on the percieved beliefs of others. This understanding of God came to me, I did not go looking for an ideal that fit the lifestyle I wanted to live. I have made many changes - and have many still to make - which have resulted from this understanding - it recognizes a unity between myself and every other person, and places the responsibility of living a life which is not only good for me, but for those around me, on my shoulders and - according to my belief - everyone elses as well. We are connected and so are our fates. I recognize a God of endless compassion and understanding, beyond even our own ability to comprehend. I have tried to fit God in my head, and failed, time and again. I have tried to grasp and understand the fullness of the mystery of existence, even though that mystery is endless and incomprehensible. According to your own Faith, you obviously must stand by your own image of God. I will not say that it is wrong, I simply believe in looking at more than just one portion of God - you may not believe that this is what you do, but from my point of view that is exactly what you do. From your point of view, I imagine, but do not assume, that you must see my concept as one of building up a God in my own mind who suits my own wishes. This is not the case. So, let us halt assumptions and rather ask meaningful questions, shall we? If you would like to know the details of my own original quest for Revelation, I will happily offer it to you to the best of my ability to describe it in words. Short of this, though, you can't possibly have any understanding of how I came to where I am, or what my own personal journey means. I came here seeking only to expand my knowledge of how humanity as a whole conceptualizes God. As I said, we are all connected in my view, therefore your views are not invalid, but rather another facet of how the unified consciousness of mankind looks at it's creator, and how it reacts to what it sees. I believe that because we are all ultimately unified, seperated only by the illusion of Ego and Perception, it is important to understand the totality of Humankind's connection to and perception of God, to grasp the greater wisdom of existence. Namaste Mahasvapna
04-12-2006, 10:56 PM
Namaste, As an aside, The habit of making Assumptions is one taught from birth. We are all equally susceptible and guilty of this habit. If you find what I say to seem as though I am making an assumption about Islam or your own personal beliefs, it is likely that I am - point it out and I will gladly open my mind to changing. Worse than making assumptions is the habit of believing in them with Conviction. namaste, Mahasvapna Quote:Not at all. Did I ever say I was 'Seeking' a God? Have I assumed too much? <i>It is not so much as that I am looking for the 'correct religion' as I am looking for the seeds of truth that I believe to be buried within each religion. </i> There is only one source of truth. And God is Truth and Truth is God. There is no other truth. <i>I asked this question a few years ago. "Why am I here? What is My purpose in life? </i> How shall I adress suffering in my world? What name shall I call God, and how shall I worship him? Does he need to be worshipped?" Excellent questions. Don't assume you have found the answers. I say this because <i>"I asked this question a few years ago"</i> implies to me you think that the journeying has lost it's impetus and details only remain. At least that's my assumption. <i>I believe that the greatest good one can do is to simply align one's own will with the will of God. </i> "Surrender one's will and purpose" is Allah's (Most Gracious Most Merciful) term, or perhaps "Submission of one's will and purpose" to the One who is Omnipotent. Allah says; <b>Allah Himself is witness that there is no God save Him. And the angels and the men of learning too are witness. Maintaining His creation in justice, there is no God save Him, the Almighty, the Wise. Lo! religion with Allah is The Surrender to His will and guidance. </b> Those who formerly received the Scripture differed only after knowledge came unto them, through transgression among themselves. Whoso disbelieveth the revelations of Allah will find that Lo! Allah is swift at reckoning. And if they argue with thee, O Muhammad, say: I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and so have those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not: Have ye too surrendered? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message unto them. Allah is Seer of His bondmen. <i>These five basic principles, to me, cover every situation I have encountered in my life, since I began to seek God.</i> Why did you cease? <i>If you would like to know the details of my own original quest for Revelation, I will happily offer it to you to the best of my ability to describe it in words. Short of this, though, you can't possibly have any understanding of how I came to where I am, or what my own personal journey means.</i> Actually I would like to hear. How about posting up seperate thread?
04-13-2006, 04:57 AM
Quote:Have I assumed too much? Pardon my liberal use of the word Truth. Since, I have reiterated the statement from different angles, I do not think linearly. I wish to understand the natural heart of humanity's relationship to God, as humankind sees that relationship. Within all of the tradition, all of the books, all of the prophets, the history - at the root of all of this, for all of mankind, regardless of religion or culture, there is a fundamental instinct that is pure and untouched by our social evolution. Perhaps you believe it to be as simple as a text outlining the right way to live, but I do not. I have found God, and his answers to my questions reveal themselves when I am ready to understand them. I seek understanding. Quote:<i>I asked this question a few years ago. "Why am I here? What is My purpose in life? </i> On the contrary, this is when I believe I took the first major step of Questioning. I have since then sought those answers through my own relationship with God. And often times, there is more than one answer to a question. We often forget how to ask the right questions. And in my experience, the answers are demonstrated. I don't assume that I have found all of my answers - and I don't assume that I have a perfect understanding of the answers that I do have. My questions arise from the communion I recieve during meditation, because my nature is not to take an answer at face value, but to discover them experientially, see them manifest in the world. In this way I know what is a seed of Truth vs. what my own ego developes. Certainly my Ego can cloud the understanding of Truth, even if I have witnessed it - and I pray to God that he will show me when I have done this. In the past I have come to understand that I was wrong in my understanding, and while I may not be right in the new assumption, I trust in God to temper my understanding in his good time, as long as I am willing to put forth the effort to continue seeking. By this word, "Seek" I mean, to question, to never assume that I have the whole picture, and always keep searching. I will Seek until I die, even if I am convinced there is nothing left to find, because I know that the mystery of God is endless. Quote:<i>I believe that the greatest good one can do is to simply align one's own will with the will of God. </i> And here is the fundamental difference between our faiths: I believe in a God of compassion. I believe that God's punishment serves to teach us wisdom, and that those of us who Seek are punished perhaps even more severely, for our transgressions often go against what even we know to be true, though we may not understand that Truth perfectly. But I do not believe that Death is final, even for sinners. I believe that God's mercy extends limitlessly, that you will always get another chance. Don't take this to mean that this is a liscence to do whatever one chooses, since there is no threat of hellfire. on the contrary, I don't need Hell to motivate me to go back from whence I came. I beleive it is unnatural NOT to be drawn to Seek God. I believe that when you die, you are confronted with the good you have done and the bad, from your intentions, and their source. Ultimately when you look back on your life, it will be clear what your true intentions were, what life you truly lived. If this life was Good, if you learned good lessons, then you are rewarded. If you have not grasped the totality of what you have to learn, then you are returned, into a life which is perfect to teach you the points that you did not learn before. You have a book to tell you what happens, I understand. I have died. I will leave it at that, because I should not need such a reason to explain my beliefs. Quote:<i>If you would like to know the details of my own original quest for Revelation, I will happily offer it to you to the best of my ability to describe it in words. Short of this, though, you can't possibly have any understanding of how I came to where I am, or what my own personal journey means.</i> Certainly. Namaste Mahasvapna
04-13-2006, 10:02 AM
Quote:Looks like you're not <i>seeking</i> Him after all. You are <i>looking</i> for a god to bow down to your conception of Him. God doesn't conform to what man wants him to be. But you must conform to what He wants you to be. If not this side of the grave, then certainly you will conform on the other side. Quote:Not at all. Did I ever say I was 'Seeking' a God? Quote:<b>Lo! religion with Allah is The Surrender to His will and guidance...And if they argue with thee, O Muhammad, say: I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and so have those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not: Have ye too surrendered? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message unto them. Allah is Seer of His bondmen.</b>
04-13-2006, 08:41 PM
Bismillah salam Mahavspna Sobhan Allah, I saw your post #32 totally different, I saw someone who is a Muslim by instinct. Well your perception of those gods as just prophets is a good foundation, as a human being u reject the idea that a god may be imperonated. We dont need to have an image of a god with for instance an elephant head because this god was unable to protect himself in a fight. Your mind refuse this. Mahavspna, the way you described God in that post is what Allah Is. We cannt comprehend neither imagine nor understand the formity of Allah. The way u pray to the source of creation is an excellent foundation. Just keep up this way Mahavspna Insh aAllah u will land safely to the shore... :thumb: Quote:Bismillah Ma sha'Allah, "Whatever Allah wants to give, He gives." [b<i>]...Allah confounds whom He will, and guides to the Right Way whom He pleases.</i>[/b] Subhanallah, beautiful is it not. It's far better than watching a beautiful swan circling before coming in to roost. Bismillah Quote:It defies all understanding or comprehension except in the most minimal way - the mystery of God is infinite, and none but God may know its full extent. Bismillah salam Mahasvapna More on this part in particular, as I said it is a good foundation that your mind do not accept those as dieties, however, if they are not dieties why would I attribute to them something that only the Creator Is Capable of. Like for instance, I m not sure I think Krishna is a part of a trinity in which he is responsible for alternating day and night, and as u said Ganesha is responsible for obstacles removing? why would the Creator, Whom you cannt comprehend or envisage delegate any of His responsibilities? In my opinion, such matters must not be in the hands of any one but The Only True Diety Who Owns everyting and Created Everything, including those who are called by those names if they ever existed. I mean one has an elephant head, the other has 4 heads which were originally 5 and he lost one looking at something. Thus, if u see them just humans, this contradicts the statement I underlined and made into a blue font in your post. Do look at it again and see if u got what I mean about the contradicition of the previous statement I made into mauve. This statement actually fits how Allah Describe Himself in Quran saying: "The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also) mates. By this means He creates you (in the wombs). There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer." (Quran 42:11) "No vision can grasp Him, but His Grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Subtle and Courteous, Well Acquainted with all things." (Quran 6:103) I think those two verses explain to you exactly as u perceive Allah. Again if this is your God, why would u need to contemplate on anyone elses claimed qualities that certainly are not possessing?
04-15-2006, 06:21 PM
Quote:Bismillah Ah, a direct answer to that question would be, "To possess mastery over my own mind, that I may use it as a tool in whatever what I choose." God can Guide me, but will not do the work. I must master my mind, body, and spirit, so that they can be used properly in his service. Perhaps you did not fully understand what I meant. I do not see the 'deities' of these other traditions as humans. I don't think they ever existed. I dunno, Krishna maybe, the jury's still out on it - but when I say the word Archetype, it is like describing a section of human conciousness, with a particular prupose, given symbolic shape in the form of a figure who represents one particular aspect of human nature, exemplified in a manner that is ideally without flaw. That doesn't mean that those deities live inside you, in your nature, unless you want to personify them even more - but it is all conceptual. These 'responsibilities' so to speak then, are not delegated at all - rather, they are aspects of what we humans are capable of. There are other deities which deal with something more cosmic - as you say with Krishna and the changing from day to night. I don't really deal with those aspects, because they are external from myself, and I can just as easily learn the lesson of day changing to night by observing the dawn and dusk. Observing - and more importantly, embodying - human nature in it's exemplified form gives us something concrete to aim towards. So, allow me to reiterate - while it may seem so in words, the concept of these leser Deities do not in any way begin to compare to the conceptualization of God. They are finite, they are called deities just because as Archetypes they exist in all people - we all have the capacity to overcome adversity, for instance, and Ganesh is the crystallized image (not a literal, thinking, independant little god, but a framework or template if you will) of the element in human nature which allows us to overcome through compassion, stability, and patience. I'm not asking anyone here to accept it and utilize it, but I personally have a responsibility to possess a mind and body which can be configured in whatever way I need them to be. Namaste Mahasvapna |
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