Does the Quran talks about the Terrorists?

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


Jazakum Allah khairan for posting this hadeeth I was looking for it for a long time.


Brother to actually sum this up.


May be Suail, you and me are all talking the same language saying the same things but in different styles.


The only thing, out of fear of judging just as u exactly quoted now, is I prefer not to generalize or confirm that the Ayah applies on those men. After all those are brothers in Islam and to say that they are among those who would say we believe while they dont till the end of the Ayahs. Now this is a grave accusation when we point it at a certain person. If the description does not fit the person it returns on one who accused.


And just as u exactly brought in the hadeeth about the man who interefered in Allah's domain of judging people, this would be making a definit judgment about a person.


Let us just say that we make dua for our brothers to be guided to the correct path, so that they know how to implement Jihad, when and where to launch Qital.


we dont wish for ourselves to be judged this hard so we should not also wish it for our fellow Muslims.

[AhmedBahgat]

Bismillah
as salam alykom


Jazakum Allah khairan for posting this hadeeth I was looking for it for a long time.


Brother to actually sum this up.


May be Suail, you and me are all talking the same language saying the same things but in different styles.


The only thing, out of fear of judging just as u exactly quoted now, is I prefer not to generalize or confirm that the Ayah applies on those men. After all those are brothers in Islam and to say that they are among those who would say we believe while they dont till the end of the Ayahs. Now this is a grave accusation when we point it at a certain person. If the description does not fit the person it returns on one who accused.


And just as u exactly brought in the hadeeth about the man who interefered in Allah's domain of judging people, this would be making a definit judgment about a person.


Let us just say that we make dua for our brothers to be guided to the correct path, so that they know how to implement Jihad, when and where to launch Qital.


we dont wish for ourselves to be judged this hard so we should not also wish it for our fellow Muslims.

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Thank you sister, it is important in Islam when having a problem small or serious to face it , not to escape from it


I did not accuse any one, because this group of people cannot be the hypocrites, let's assume for argument sake it is about the terrorists like Bin Laden, Zawahiri and Zarrqawi etc, so when Allah is telling us about those people, to you, me, all true muslims and non muslims, we will not get confused neither mislead especially His Holy name is used in these unhuman acts, and because the Quran is the book of guidance that suits all generations it must respond to this important historical events that took the whole world by a shocking surprise, so the Quran is the one that accused them NOT ME, NEITHER YOU, me and you must be aware of it, that is all, but if you notice the Quran is also telling us that they ARE NOT MUSLIMS, eventhough that is what they think:


"Of the people there are some who say: "<b>We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe."</b>


<b><i>{The Quran ; 2:8}</i></b>


The Quran also tells us the they do not realize their self deception :


"Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, <b>but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!</b>"


<b><i>{The Quran ; 2:9}</i></b>


furthermore it tells us:


"When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," <b>they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"</b>


<b>"Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not."</b>


<b><i>{The Quran ; 2:11-12}</i></b>


The Quran also tells us they are the ones who accuse us "<b>the true believers</b>" of being fools:


"When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "<b>Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.</b>"


<b><i>{The Quran ; 2:13}</i></b>


and I have to follow Allah guidance sister, it fit them like a glove, I do not need to even stretch it


This is an important messge to the whole Muslim commuity in the world and I will continue to promote it untill proved wrong, it is my duty to Allah sister and it is my own Jihad


Peace to All

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom brother


I dont think 2:13 is referring to those people, but I will leave it here, I d rather stop the argument in the name of Allah and according to what the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam instructed us.

[AhmedBahgat]

Sister Muslimah


this is not an argument, unless you classify any science discovery in the Quran as an argument


it is really disappointing to see that Muslims are scared to discuss the Quran, but the Quran siad otherwise, it challenged All Humanity and Jins to find a mistake in it


so if you think that those verses about the Hypocrites, then this will be a mistake, because the arabic words read do not incline that it nis about the hypocrites


and for verse 2:13, here is Ibn Kathir comment:


so Ibn kathir thought it was about the hypocrites, obviously from his Tafsir, while the fact of the matter, is a believer will not know a hypocrite, because a hypocrite is showing that he/she is a believer, comon sense, so assuming I discivered a Hypocrite, so I will tell him come and beleive, like I beleive, so he will tell me no I will not believe as you believe becauise you are fool, come on sister that does not make any sense at all


also sister, the verses are from 8-20 talk about one group of people, so it will make sense that you select only one verse and say it is not refereing to them, and if I agree for argument sake, then whom the rest of the 13 verses refer to?


it is either all 13 verses refer to the hypocrite or not


peace sister

[AhmedBahgat]

Salam Sister Muslimah


I decided to go through the whole Quran again and extract all the verses that the following arabic words appear:


1) Monafikoon


2) Monafikeen


3) Monafik


4) Monafikah


5) Nifak


I will also extract the tafseer for any of these verses by Ibn Kathir as well any hadith that relates to these verses from bukhari


after that I believe it may be much simpler to make the comparison between all these verses and veres 2:8-20


the motive for this mission is to try to find out who is the group of people mentioned in verses 2:8-20, because the Quran NEVER called them Hypocrites, then let's see if the Quran can solve this puzzle and I'm sure the it will


this is going to take me a long time but I'm very excited about it


peace sister

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


NO I was not referring to the Ayah being an argument brother


I was referring to me trying to communicate my viewpoint to you and u r doing the same. My point actually is that we can not make it sure that this Ayah, this description, this category fit the ones u r talking about. I mean we should not wish this for them or judge them as such, since this is a serious judgment. That is all what I am saying.


Also I will appreciate it if u translate the tafseer as u can see this is an english board. YOu only posted the tafseer in Arabic. So that members can benefit. Arabic speakers are few on this board.


Just even summarize it, and I will delete the Arabic pls.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


The tafseer brother Ahmed posted for Quran 2:13 (which he posted in Arabic) say:


Allah may He be Glorified say: If it was said to the hypocrites believe just as the people believed which means believed in Allah, Allah's Angles, books, Messengers, resurrection after death, Jannah and Juhannum and other items of which the belivers were informed. Then obey Allah and His Messenger in terms of fulfilling the commands and refrain from what is forbidden. The answer of this group of people will be "Shall we believe as the fools believe?". In this they refer to – may Allah Curse them – the companions of the Messenger of Allah salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam and may Allah be pleased with all of them (reported by Abu Al`lyah and Sedy in the tafseer as reported by Ibn Abbas, Ibn Masoud and others). In another explanation, they say shall we become equal on one level and adopt the same approach of those when they are fools? The word fools is the plural of fool who is ignorant who is unable to develop an opinion, having little knowledge of the positions of good and harmful actions. In this position Allah Made the reply to them saying Nay, of a surety they are the fools, by which Allah restricted the adjective of being fool only on them. Yet but they do not know which confirms their ignorance even about their status taking them far away from guidance.


May Allah help you brother but pls when u post the tafseer, post it in English, I did the translation this time. But with the amount expected I dont think I can.


And if u dont post it in English then the benefit is invalid.


Jazakum Allah khairan

[AhmedBahgat]

I'm sorry sister, I will do that in my next comments, thatis what i always do anyway, I really do not know why I did not post the english, but I thank you a lot for doing that


I already extracted all the verses regarding the hypocrites, and i'm going through Ibn Kathir Tafsir, I actually discovered new facts, this book is really amazing, every time you read it you discover new things, this is a miracle


I have a lot of home work to do but I'm really exited about it, and it is not contest rather sharing information, logic and understanding, I'm not attacking islam, but I found when I see an action/understanding by the majority of muslims (me included) that can not be valid if compared with the Quran, so I try to dicuss it, I found my brothers and sisters get defensive, some even start attacking me like I'm a total idiot, but as I said I'm very professional in the Arabic language and I found understanding the Quran is really easy, I never found it hard to understand, I really do not know why many thinks it is hard to understand, for example sister, the concept of polygamy in Islam, was clear and conditioned as read in verse 4:3


however you will see many muslims with totally different understanding to it, some with understanding that is really a joke, I tackled this issue for over a year was invloved with talks with muslims, in australia, the uk and egypt, and to my shocking surprise, I found there is a few different understandings to the polygamy law in Islam as extracted from the Quran, yet the verses totally mean something else, my research was confirmed after finsing an Islamic web site for muslim sisters and I was so happy to see that many sisters truelly understand the polygamy law, and their understanding is the cloest you get to the verse true meaning, in fact they even warning their sisters to not to allow the men to abuse the polygamy law


so I'm a muslim of that sort, I can not see my brothers and sisters with totally opposite opinions/understanding, while the fact of the matter is all muslims should have one understanding (Quran and authenticated sunnah)


if I turn a blind eye on it, I will be rendered exactly the same, i.e. I will be really annoyed with myself as I'm annoyed with most muslims


I hope my muslim brothers and sisters understand my position, someone who is really looking for the best understanding to the Quran and the way to do it is to read the Quran not to follow what muslims do, I have to prove everything to myself this is what I learnt from the Bible, as I spend a few years studying the Bible and comparing it with the Quran, a passage in the Bible that I truely believe in:


<b>"Not to take things for granted, but 'PROVE ALL THINGS"</b>



<i><b>{1 Thessalonians 5:21}</b></i>


Peace

[Muslimah]

Mash a Allah


Brother we have no disagreement on any of what u said, it is our duty to study the Quran to take an indepth look into it. It is our manual, we must know more about it to apply it.


Brother my only point in this issue, is of course u go ahead and do the excersice to extract the category, it is never a wast of time, but we must not lable any one, we must finger point a specific person saying this is a Munafiq. If it was not him/her then it returns back on the accusor. U know what I mean. that is all.


Brothe we also appreciate if u can post the finidings on poylgyny pls on the women and family room.

[AhmedBahgat]

Mash a Allah
Brother we have no disagreement on any of what u said, it is our duty to study the Quran to take an indepth look into it. It is our manual, we must know more about it to apply it.


Brother my only point in this issue, is of course u go ahead and do the excersice to extract the category, it is never a wast of time, but we must not lable any one, we must finger point a specific person saying this is a Munafiq. If it was not him/her then it returns back on the accusor. U know what I mean. that is all.


Brothe we also appreciate if u can post the finidings on poylgyny pls on the women and family room.

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thank you sister


I never accused a muslim as being a hypocrite, never ever, in fact what my findings is not about the hypocrites at all, it is about the people who say we believe in Allah and the Last Day and they do not really believe and they do not know it


but please dear sister wait until I finish my home work regarding the hypocrites, the reason the hypocrites are involved in our discussion is simply because I believe using ONLY LOGIC, it was wrongly understood that the verses 2:8-20 are about the hypocrites, and if we apply logic and understanding we can easily get closer to the truth


yeh sister regardon polgamy or polygany, I discovered another amazing fact sister and again based on compelling logic and the arabic meaning of the words used in the verses and the circumstances the verse was revealed, this is a shocker sister, because when I discussed it with many muslims in two different countries most have agreed after they were shocked, some came with yet new logic that is mostly funny


what is more of a shocker that i discussed it with a mufti on another forum, and amazingly he came with a totally different logic that makes no snese at all


this is going to be a very contreversial thread sister and I hope it will benefit us all


I have plenty to discuss sister and I hope it will be very constructive


peace