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AhmedBahgat · 09-08-2005, 01:11 PM

Peace to everyone,

Last Ramadan with the help of Allah 'swt' I discovered an amazing fact in the Quran, I dicovered that it talks about the terrorists and their attrocities in its second page, I see this as a miracle, please be patient with me and give me a chance to explain

We all know that the Quran is divided into 114 Suras “Chapters”

The first Sura is called “Al-Fataha”, like “Introduction” and is only 7 verses, the second Sura starting at page 2 is called “Al-Baqara”, which means “The Cow”, this is actually the longest Sura in the Quran and consists of 286 verses, this Sura has plenty of information regarding many things like humankind history on earth, explaining who is our One and only God “Allah”, and sure the story of Adam and Eve and many more, what is striking in this Sura is verses 2 to 20, in these verses Allah is telling us about 3 groups of people similar to a passage in the Bible, however the Quran was clear as light in the descriptions of these groups of people, in fact the Quran is always clear as light inabout 95% of its contents, it was designed this way as stated in it numerous times, so let’s start by looking what the Quran said about these 3 groups of people, all the verses mentioned are [The Quran ; 2:2-20]

The first Group – verses 2:2-5 – The Believers

(2) “This is the Book (The Quran); in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;”


(3) “Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;”

(4) “And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.”

(5) “They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.”

ذَلِكَ الْكِتَابُ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ هُدًى لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ (2)

الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْغَيْبِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلاةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ (3)

والَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِالآخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ (4)

أُوْلَئِكَ عَلَى هُدًى مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ (5)

The believers descriptions is very clear, extracted from the above verses as follow:

Verse 2: “This is the Book (The Quran); in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;”, i.e the Quran is their guidance and they fear Allah.

Verse 3: “Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;”, i.e they believe in the UNSEEN, they are steadfast in prayer and they give money to the poor and needy.

Verse 4: “And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.”, i.e they believe in the Quran, they believe in all previous inspirations, and they have the assurance of the hereafter.

Verse 5: “They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.”, i.e they follow the and unchanged guidance and they are the ones that will prosper.

The second Group – verses 6-7 – The Unbelievers

(6) “As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.”


(7) “Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).”

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ (6)

خَتَمَ اللّهُ عَلَى قُلُوبِهمْ وَعَلَى سَمْعِهِمْ وَعَلَى أَبْصَارِهِمْ غِشَاوَةٌ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ عظِيمٌ (7)

-> The unbelievers descriptions are very clear as well, extracted from the above verses as follow:

Verse 6: “As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.”. i.e. They reject faith (rejected the Quran), they will never believe wether they are warned or not.

Verse 7:“Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).”, i.e. they have seals on their hearts and hearings set upon by Allah as a result of their arrogance, they have also veils over they eyes, and they will incur a great punishment for their arrogance, this seal and veil set by Allah are actually explain why these unbelievers will not believe wether they are warned or not as stated in verse 6, it is like they have been cursed by Allah due to their arrogance and their biased hearts and minds.

The third Group – verses 2:8-20 – The Terrorists

I will walk you through it verse by verse here man while extracting the terrorists decriptions, to make it as clear as possible:

(8) “Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.”


وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَقُولُ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَبِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَمَا هُم بِمُؤْمِنِينَ (8)

-> i.e. They say they believe in Allah and the Last Day, BUT they do not really believe.

(9) “Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!”


يُخَادِعُونَ اللّهَ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَمَا يَخْدَعُونَ إِلاَّ أَنفُسَهُم وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ (9)

-> i.e. They deceive Allah and they deceive the believers (the first group), but they actually deceive themselves and they DO NOT REALISE THEIR SELF DECEPTION, this is clear as light that those thugs deceive Allah, now please tell me, what more deception to Allah than beheading an innocent man while cheering with Allah’s name?, as well, can you see that those thugs deceive the believers as well as stated. This can happen in two ways as we we see it now, deception to all believers by misleading the whole world and showing the innocent religion as a barbaric one, as well trying to recruit the young believers and convince them by deception to commit atrocities by strapping bombs around them and blow away any innocent human in the vicinity, well, the Quran told us in this verse that the terrorists only deceive themselves and they do not realise it.

(10) “In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).”


فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ فَزَادَهُمُ اللّهُ مَرَضاً وَلَهُم عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ بِمَا كَانُوا يَكْذِبُونَ (10)

-> i.e. Their hearts is full of diseases, this is a perfect and accurate description about the terrorists, what sort of ill heart a person have to behead or order to behead an innocent man?, well a very sick heart for sure, this heart sickness is increased by Allah because of their submission to Satan, it is like Allah will make them commit more crimes so THE GRIEVOUS IS THE PENALTY THEY INCUR because they are FALSE TO THEMSELVES, what an accuracy in describing those thugs, still more to follow.

(11) “When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we are the ones who make things right!"


وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ (11)

-> i.e. When we call those thugs to stop their atrocities and the mischief on earth they commit, they respond by saying that they are the ones who are doing things right, another perfect description about the terrorists.

(12) “Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.”


أَلا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ الْمُفْسِدُونَ وَلَكِن لاَّ يَشْعُرُونَ (12)

-> i.e. Allah is telling us not to believe those thugs (who claimed they are the ones who are doings things right) by confirming to us that they are indeed “surety” the ones who are making mischief on earth and still do not realise it, perfect description again.

(13) “When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.”


وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ آمِنُواْ كَمَا آمَنَ النَّاسُ قَالُواْ أَنُؤْمِنُ كَمَا آمَنَ السُّفَهَاء أَلا إِنَّهُمْ هُمُ السُّفَهَاء وَلَكِن لاَّ يَعْلَمُونَ (13)

-> i.e. Those thugs were called to believe as the normal believers believe (the first group) but they respond by saying that the normal believers are fool, and Allah is telling us that indeed “surety” they are the real fools and they still do not know it.

(14) “When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."


وَإِذَا لَقُواْ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ قَالُواْ آمَنَّا وَإِذَا خَلَوْاْ إِلَى شَيَاطِينِهِمْ قَالُواْ إِنَّا مَعَكْمْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُسْتَهْزِؤُونَ (14)

-> i.e. Some of those thugs pray with us in the mosques showing that they are believers “those are the unknown recruited ones”, but when they meet the leaders in hiding “their evil ones” they say they were only jesting them (the believers), I see the evil ones as the known terrorists leaders like Laden and Zarqawi, the evil ones can also be the "Kareen" that Allah has assigned for each one of them.

(15) “Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).”


اللّهُ يَسْتَهْزِىءُ بِهِمْ وَيَمُدُّهُمْ فِي طُغْيَانِهِمْ يَعْمَهُونَ (15)

-> i.e. Allah is very angry with those thugs and consequently this what must happen: Allah will throw back their mockery on them, He will give them rope in their trespasses and they will wander like blinds.

(16) “These are they who have bartered Guidance for error: But their traffic is profitless, and they have lost true direction,”


أُوْلَئِكَ الَّذِينَ اشْتَرُوُاْ الضَّلاَلَةَ بِالْهُدَى فَمَا رَبِحَت تِّجَارَتُهُمْ وَمَا كَانُواْ مُهْتَدِينَ (16)

-> i.e. Those terrorists who took error in place of guidance, and their traffic is profitless (think about the ransoms they asked for the kidnapping or possibly their drug dealing in Afganistan” and they indeed lost the true direction.

(17) “Their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in utter darkness. So they could not see.”


مَثَلُهُمْ كَمَثَلِ الَّذِي اسْتَوْقَدَ نَاراً فَلَمَّا أَضَاءتْ مَا حَوْلَهُ ذَهَبَ اللّهُ بِنُورِهِمْ وَتَرَكَهُمْ فِي ظُلُمَاتٍ لاَّ يُبْصِرُونَ (17)

-> i.e. Allah is giving us a similitude of those thugs of someone who lit a light, then the light lighted all around him and suddenly Allah will take their light away and leave them in darkness, well I see this verse as saying that those thugs will succeed in some of their sick atrocities ”it lighted all around him” but the bottom line is their final destination is indeed going to be darkness.

(18) “Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).”


صُمٌّ بُكْمٌ عُمْيٌ فَهُمْ لاَ يَرْجِعُونَ (18)

-> i.e. They are Deaf, Dumb and Blind, indeed the verse is telling us that they will not return to the right path, another perfect descriptions.

(19) “Or (another similitude) is that of a rain-laden cloud from the sky: In it are zones of darkness, and thunder and lightning: They press their fingers in their ears to keep out the stunning thunder-clap, the while they are in terror of death. But Allah is ever round the rejecters of Faith!”


أَوْ كَصَيِّبٍ مِّنَ السَّمَاء فِيهِ ظُلُمَاتٌ وَرَعْدٌ وَبَرْقٌ يَجْعَلُونَ أَصْابِعَهُمْ فِي آذَانِهِم مِّنَ الصَّوَاعِقِ حَذَرَ الْمَوْتِ واللّهُ مُحِيطٌ بِالْكافِرِينَ (19)

-> This verse really stroke me hard when I read the Eglish translation by Yusuf Ali. It is giving another similitude about the terrorists, the similitude is like them walking in darkness while there is thunder rain and lighting, and those thugs are too scared from this hostile environment and they keep pressing their fingers in their ears to keep out the stunning thunder clap while they are in terror of death, mates, this is like them being bombarded by the allies B52s, what do you think?

BUT WHAT STRIKE ME MORE IS THE WORD “LADEN” in the sentence “is that of a rain-laden cloud from the sky” as translated by Yusuf Ali, sure I know that the verse is not talking about Bin Laden, but what an amazing coincidence that is for the English readers, I actually laughed when I noticed, I love the Quran, how accurate it is under any circumstances.

(20) “The lightning all but snatches away their sight; every time the light (Helps) them, they walk therein, and when the darkness grows on them, they stand still. And if Allah willed, He could take away their faculty of hearing and seeing; for Allah hath power over all things.”


يَكَادُ الْبَرْقُ يَخْطَفُ أَبْصَارَهُمْ كُلَّمَا أَضَاء لَهُم مَّشَوْاْ فِيهِ وَإِذَا أَظْلَمَ عَلَيْهِمْ قَامُواْ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَذَهَبَ بِسَمْعِهِمْ وَأَبْصَارِهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّه عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ (20)

-> This is the rest of the similitude started in verse 19, it shows how this hostile environment will destroy the terrorists.

Ok brothers and sisters, this is very accurate stuff and very explicit to the terrorists and in the Quran first page, when I discussed this with all the muslims I know, most agreed and some tried to tell me that it talks about the the hypocrites "Al Monafiqoon", the problem here will be that the Quran is never shy to call the Hypocrites "Hypocrites", in fact there is a whole sura called "The Hypocrites", this is sure consist of 11 verses, in 8 of those verses the Quran talks about the Hypocrites and call them Hypocrites 4 times, while in the 13 verses 2:8:20, it never used the word Hupocrite to describe them, as well you do not call a hypocrite to believe as the others believe because a hypocrite is already showing that he is a believer.

This is yet another example of the miracle of the Quran, it describes life as we see at any generation.

Please let me know your thoughts about the above

Thanks for reading

Ahmed Bahgat

***Muslimah*** · 09-08-2005, 07:52 PM

Bismillah

as salam alykom brother Ahmed

Welcome to the board and jazakum Allah khairan on your first post.

Well the idea is worth considering and re reading, true the Quran calls the hypocrites as hypocrites. I just have one reservation about the laden part.

Brother it is much better for all of us as muslims to never judge any other Muslim who engaged in Jihad. Yes the apparent may be violating what we know. But they are the Mujaheddeen and we are the sitting. Of course u know what i am referring to in the Ayah that says; not equal those who do jihad and those who are sitting.

Plus I fully agree with u that beheading is not justified, but that is if it was done by Muslims to start with. So is the blowing up, unless it is in Palestine or other hot Muslim areas which can be clearly defined as battle field. Then we are allowed to fight and deter the enemy who is envading. Again I stress this who is envading.

Not to consider a place like Egypt a hot area and start terrorising innoncents. Yet this is also explained thru a hadeeth.

To cut it short, i do like your logic here Mash a Allah.

True they feel that they are doing good while it is the contrary la hawal wala qowata ilah billah

We are looking forward to more contribution on your part brother.

***Suhail*** · 09-08-2005, 10:44 PM

my view is that we sitting in comfort of our own home cannot decide what is good or bad ........i would even challenge ne mufti who gives a fatwa against it whilst sitting in his own home without going to the actual places and accessing the situation first hand ......so brother my advice is go to see what its like come back then tell me if its wrong or right

AhmedBahgat · (This post was last modified: 09-09-2005, 07:57 AM by Muslimah.)

Quote:

Bismillah


as salam alykom brother Ahmed


Welcome to the board and jazakum Allah khairan on your first post.

Thank you sister Muslimah, I'm really delighted that you were the first to respond to my comment, because before I joined i read a lot in here and I'm very impressed with you sister, Gazaki Allah Khair and may He reward you at the end of time inshaallah, I hardly see any Muslim woman involved in the Online Da'wa, while Allah has honoured the women by asking the 12 wives of the prophet to abandon this life and spend whatever left in it to spread the deen and educate plenty of men and women, what an honour for women by Allah.

Quote:Well the idea is worth considering and re reading, true the Quran calls the hypocrites as hypocrites. I just have one reservation about the laden part.

It is very striking sister, my whole body shook when I discovered it, while in the past I read it many times for the last 25 years and never got the idea that it is about the terrorists, and when it hit me last Ramadan, I was so joyful, I almost cried, because I was one of the confused by the atrocities committed by my Muslim brothers, and by seeing how the enemy of Islam use it against my religion, I went to the Quran to find an answer, I knew in advance that I will find an answer, because in 25 years the Quran answered all the Questiona that I had and all the ones that were asked by others, an amazing book that is. I love it

Yes sister please read it many times and I would love to know what you have concluded please.

Quote:
Brother it is much better for all of us as muslims to never judge any other Muslim who engaged in Jihad.[/qoute]
with my total respect sister, I disagree, because this is not Jihad, they can call it Jihad as they wish, it only adds to the confusion in how the non Muslims think about the Jihad, while the fact of the matter is Jihad in the Quran is fighting the self and to use any power and Mi’mah Allah has given to spread His religion in peace, 


when Muslims are attacked then yes the Jihad will take a different turn called Qital, which is a must of all Muslims to defend their religion if attacked and I will be one of the first to defend it and die for it


but please sister, I can't consider what those terrorists do in Iraq and Palestine as Jihad, because simply it conflicts with the Quran.


1) a martyr can not know that he/she will die a martyr


2) a martyr must die with any other cause, not self inflicting death


3) a martyr does not kill innocent women and children and surely does not kill Muslims


I agree that the Quran tell us we should never judge another believer regarding his/her faith, but what we do here to expose those thugs is a must and a duty for all Muslims sister, because THEY HAVE DECEIVED ALLAH AND THEY HAVE DECEIVED ALL THE MUSLIMS


in fact the terrorists criticised us and they called "the believers" fools, 


I was appreciative that the Kafiroon, removed the Taliban and Saddam, they were deployed by Allah, and we should be thankful to them, because they are helping us to get rid of the people who are degrading our peaceful religion, deceiving us and deceiving Allah, and I can't consider removing the Taliban and Saddam as an attack on my faith, in fact it is a defence to my faith


If the taliban were really the true Muslims as they claimed, why then Allah did not help them? we know that Allah can even send an army of Angels to help the true believers if it was really Jihad and the Muslims are being killed because of their faith, it does not add up sister, 


That is why sister we reached this stage, our religion has sank very bad, and mostly because of us "the Muslims", the ones who commit atrocities in the name of Allah and the ones who turn a blind eye on it and call them Mujahidoon, and sure the division that our great religion suffer from with many sects now, i'm sorry sister to tell you that but I feel sorry for myself, my family, my children and all my Muslim brothers and sisters as well, and please forgive me, it is our responsibility to show the world how peaceful this religion is, while those so called mujahiddon are wrongly showing otherwise,


you know sister, the most human that will be attacked more by Satan are the ones who call themselves believers, like me and you and all the Muslims, simply because Satan and his progeny main objective is to take all humans with them to Hell, and sure any unbeliever need not too much work from Satan, because by just rejecting Islam they successfully joined Satan in hell, so Satan will attack to us more, he will try hard to corrupt our religion, in fact I remember a nice description by my mentor Sheikh Mohammad Metwali El Sharawi "May Allah bless his soul" , that Satan stands at the doors of the mosques, not the clubs and bars, Satan is targeting the believers far more either to corrupt their faith and if he failed he will try to convince us to make a lot of bad deeds, it is written in the Quran sister muslimah as you know




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<div>Yes the apparent may be violating what we know. But they are the Mujaheddeen and we are the sitting. Of course u know what i am referring to in the Ayah that says; not equal those who do jihad and those who are sitting.

true sister, but those are not Mujahiddeen, because simply Islam is not attacked


they made it up sister to make their authorities as if it has for a good cause


at least a mujahid will not kill randomly innocent Muslims sister


in fact sister I can comfortably call you a mujahid and I can never call those thugs mujahideen


because simply you involve yourself in actions by spending your time online to defend and promote the good in Islam, and I'm sure you always fight the bad in you, you are a true Mujahid sister NOT them

Quote:Plus I fully agree with u that beheading is not justified, but that is if it was done by Muslims to start with.

can not be justified sister, never ever, and you are right if it is done by the Muslims from to start with, and that is what we saw sister on videos, Muslims beheading innocent people while holding the Quran in their hand and cheering Allahoakbar, and that is how I see it , they DECEIVED ALLAH


but as you stated they can not be Muslims, and consequently they can not be mujahiddeen

Quote:So is the blowing up, unless it is in Palestine or other hot Muslim areas which can be clearly defined as battle field. Then we are allowed to fight and deter the enemy who is envading. Again I stress this who is envading.

yes and I agree sister but under the following conditions:


1) Islam is the target


2) Muslims are the target


3) Muslims have been kicked out of their homes


4) No self inflicting death should be committed by the Muslims


5) No killings of the innocents


But regarding a battle field, it can not be the public streets and shopping malls, where innocent women and children doing their daily business, but I have to ask, what a suicide bomber in Israel will achieve?


Absolutely nothing, because he/she caused no damage to the enemy forces, rather killed a few innocent victims that may include Muslims as well, you see a suicide bomber is nothing but a coward who is only looking to be rewarded as martyr so he/she kill him/her self thinking that this will make them as such, nothing more than been brainwashed,


But let me say something about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the problem here sister that most Arabs if not all are raised while been taught to hate the Jews, I was one of those, in fact in a recent program on the Egyptian satellite, an Egyptian host was talking to a 6 years old child and she was asking him if he hates the Jews or not and he said yes and she was very proud then she asked him why? And he could not answer her, you see how the hate was put in an innocent child?


But when I grew up I found that I hate them for one reason only and that reason I found in the Quran, that they are the prophets murderers, this is enough for me to hate them, but for the Palestine conflict, I never hate them for that, because I see that they also have the right to the land exactly as the Arabs, the history says that not me, in fact if we talk to them peacefully on the negotiation table, I’m sure they will act decently.


I lived in the united states for a couple of years before I migrated to Australia, and in my time in America all the jobs I did were with the Jews, and to my surprise I found them dealing with me “Bima Yourdi Allah”, I’m sure they did not like the fact I’m a Muslim and was reading the Quran in my lunch breaks, they even told me that, but again they never harmed me neither they dealt with me with disrespect, this is when I started to change my understanding about them.


But if we look at the recent years we will see clearly that when the Egyptians “wanted peace” they gave us our land with peace, they tried to keep Taba, but again we fought them within the international court and we took it back, “I’m Egyptian btw”, and we also saw recently how they evacuated Gazza and even fought with their Jews brothers and sisters to remove them, I have seen it all on TV, not sure if they show this in Egypt


This tells us that if we stop the violence and hate, they will be forced to talk with us and we will have the whole world behind us, very simple logic really.


Do not also forget sister that most Palestinian sold their own land to the Jews for a few bucks years ago, do not also forget sister that Yaser Arrafat “May Allah bless him” was one of the richest men in the world and yet his people were suffering bad. Who is wrong sister? 


Let me simplify this logic a bit sister, imagine you and your neighbour in the opposite flat are fighting for a car spot “a car park”, you think it is yours and you want to park your car in it, and your neighbour thinks it is hers and she wants to park her car in it.


But somehow you always park your car in this spot and your neighbour is really pissed off, so at night, your neighbour goes down and blow up your car tyres, then in the morning when you discover it and blame your neighbour, your neighbour admit it and even cheer for it and tell you ..., what you feel sister at that time?


Will you tell your neighbour sorry and give him the car spot after she committed a violation against you?, of course not sister “unless you are an angel”, I would say it will make you more mad and the conflict will increase, we can not say that your neighbour action is morally right because she thinks the car spot is hers, however imagine your neighbour took you to court and won it there, what should happen after?, you will surrender the car spot.


And that is what I’m talking about sister; it is our ignorance that we can not realize, while it is obvious for the blinds


I really feel sorry for the family of a suicide bomber, especially if he left a wife and children, he escaped like a coward and left a family to suffer, destroying one of the main objectives for our existence on earth, which is “Khalifa” to learn and gain knowledge then find Allah and spend the rest of life to please Him, I do not think Allah will be pleased with me if I strap a bomb around me killing myself and a few innocent humans including women, children and Muslims, yet I left a family behind to suffer for the rest of their life, Allah will only knows what will happen to my children, I cared less about them and left them for the unknowns of life, what more crime a man can do than this sister?


May Allah help us to find the right path

Quote:Not to consider a place like Egypt a hot area and start terrorising innoncents. Yet this is also explained thru a hadeeth.

and that is what those thugs considered sister, Cairo, Sharm Elshiekh, London, Bali, Iraq, Indonesia, Turkey, New York, far out, it is every where sister, they do not discriminate obviously.

Quote:
To cut it short, i do like your logic here Mash a Allah.
True they feel that they are doing good while it is the contrary la hawal wala qowata ilah billah

This logic stroke me hard sister, I swear with Allah Might, the circumstances I found it under was also striking, it was almost a year ago when I found an anti Islam web site, in there I found horrible insults to the greatest man ever existed on earth, I could not stand it sister so I joined and fought hard, the argument there that Quran encourages violence and terror and they posted many verses from Sura 2 to support their lies, so I told them I read the Quran thoroughly for the last 25 years more than 15 times in two languages and I’m fluent in Arabic including the “Nahw”, the Arabic grammar, and I never found one verse that encourages violence against the innocent people, so I challenged them that I will post the whole verses in the two languages starting from the beginning, and when I started reading again, it happened just as I reached verse 2:8, my body shacked hard and all the hair I have stood like needles then I laughed hard, that was an awesome moment in my life I will never forget, I rad more to qualify it, so I went back to them with the amazing news, that you say the Quran encourages terrorism, but the Quran exposes the terrorists and their atrocities in its first page, as well it promise them with horrible punishment, what else I could have said sister, they all were shocked, stunned and no one could not refute it, Glory to Allah, since them I have done many researches and went through all the tafsirs and hadiths and absolutely concluded that it has to be the terrorists and can not be the hypocrites, but I have to agree sister that SOME of the descriptions from verse 8 to verse 20 will fit a hypocrite “possibly 50%” but there are many that can not be attributed to a hypocrite, but if we compare the descriptions to a Muslim terrorist, then it fits like a glove sister, it is also amazing to know that the word hypocrites was never used, while most of the scholars thought the Quran is talking about the hypocrites in those 13 verses .

Quote:
We are looking forward to more contribution on your part brother.




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Thank you sister, me too is looking forward to discuss a few important points in our religion, and you are a great candidate after I was impressed with your knowledge about the Quran, may Allah reward you for it


May Allah bless us all sister and sorry for my long comment 


Peace to all


Ahmed


I edited a few words off this post brother



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AhmedBahgat · 09-08-2005, 11:46 PM

Quote:my view is that we sitting in comfort of our own home cannot decide what is good or bad ........i would even challenge ne mufti who gives a fatwa against it whilst sitting in his own home without going to the actual places and accessing the situation first hand ......so brother my advice is go to see what its like come back then tell me if its wrong or right

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Salam Brother Suhail

I think by following the Quran then the authenticated Sunnah, the good and bad can be seperated very easy bro

I could not understand exactly what fatwa you mentioned above?

so what you are saying bro, it is right to strap a bomb around yourself killing yourself and killing innocent women and children including muslims?

if this is the case bro why not you do it?

this is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG and i will keep saying this till the end of time

Peace brother

reepicheep · 09-09-2005, 12:19 AM

AhmedBahgat wrote, in reference to Jews:

> But when I grew up I found that I hate them

> for one reason only and that reason I found

> in the Quran, that they are the prophets

> murderers, this is enough for me to hate them,

I have a Jewish sister-in-law, and a ten year old half-Jewish niece. You seem to be saying that you hate my ten year old niece (even though you don't know her) because she is Jewish, and that she is guilty of murder because thousands of years ago some of her ancestors might have killed a prophet. Correct?

If, as you claim, my niece is guilty of murder, then I assume you believe that, according to Islamic law, she must be executed? According to Islamic law, are all jews without exception guilty of murder? According to Islamic law, must all modern day Jews without exception be rounded up and executed?

AhmedBahgat · 09-09-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:AhmedBahgat wrote, in reference to Jews:
> But when I grew up I found that I hate them

> for one reason only and that reason I found

> in the Quran, that they are the prophets

> murderers, this is enough for me to hate them,

I have a Jewish sister-in-law, and a ten year old half-Jewish niece. You seem to be saying that you hate my ten year old niece (even though you don't know her) because she is Jewish, and that she is guilty of murder because thousands of years ago some of her ancestors might have killed a prophet. Correct?

If, as you claim, my niece is guilty of murder, then I assume you believe that, according to Islamic law, she must be executed? According to Islamic law, are all jews without exception guilty of murder? According to Islamic law, must all modern day Jews without exception be rounded up and executed?

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I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, sorry possibly it is my fault

what i meant, I found that I only hated their actions in the past for killings the prophets as I learnt from the Quran and the Hhistory, I'm not a type of person who blame anyone for others actions

in fact if you read all my post, I have praised the jews that I lived with

Thank you and sorry again

reepicheep · 09-09-2005, 01:01 AM

In one place, AhmedBahgat wrote, in reference to Jews:

> But when I grew up I found that I hate them

in another place, AhmedBahgat wrote

> I only hated their actions

You are contradicting yourself. In one place, you say that you hate Jews. In another place, you seem to be saying that you hate the actions of Jews, but not the Jews themselves. So, which is it? Do you hate Jews, or their actions?

During the time I have spent on Islamic websites, I have often been astonished by the great pride many Muslims take in their hatred of Jews, Christians, homosexuals, etc.

Does the Koran teach that Muslims must hate those people who don't follow Islamic law? I find the message of love, taught by Jesus, to be much more comforting:

Quote:"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:43-48

In other words, "hate the sin, love the sinner". The world would be a much better place if all people followed this teaching of Jesus.

AhmedBahgat · 09-09-2005, 01:21 AM

sorry mate I explained myself enough

I hate the actiones the jews did in the npast by killing the prophets for no reason

and I hate the actions they do now with thepalestinian however I can see that they can be excused

other than that I have no propblem with the jews neither the christians, I was actually raised in shoubra cairo between the christians and I love them, i do not feel love for the jews but I do not hate them I HATE THEIR ACTIONS, period

thank you

***Suhail*** · 09-09-2005, 02:50 AM

Quote:my view is that we sitting in comfort of our own home cannot decide what is good or bad ........i would even challenge ne mufti who gives a fatwa against it whilst sitting in his own home without going to the actual places and accessing the situation first hand ......so brother my advice is go to see what its like come back then tell me if its wrong or right

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Quote:Salam Brother Suhail
I think by following the Quran then the authenticated Sunnah, the good and bad can be seperated very easy bro

I could not understand exactly what fatwa you mentioned above?

so what you are saying bro, it is right to strap a bomb around yourself killing yourself and killing innocent women and children including muslims?

if this is the case bro why not you do it?

this is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG and i will keep saying this till the end of time

Peace brother

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wooooahh i dont like people putting words in my mouth ...... did i say that ? i think i didnt .....i think u totally missed my point and misunderstood me .........all im saying is to make it "simple" is to not judge other peoples actions without knowing their situation fully .......thats my view .....i see we aint gonna get along so ill leave it at that ------WE SITTING IN OUR HOMES CANNOT DECIDE WOTS WRONG OR RIGHT ......and please dont tell me to strap myself with a bomb i find that quite offensive from where i come from .....

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