Adultery – In Biblical And Islamic Terms

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Sorry mod for putting this question in, it has nothing to do with the subject, but since it came up


Hi Reepicheep,


''Many portions of the New Testament describe events which occur many years after the death of Jesus (for example, the letters that Paul wrote). Obviously, these events couldn't have been written down during the "time of Jesus" since the events hadn't occurred yet.''


When I read this I come up with the following.


IF it is revelation from Allah, SWT - WHY could future events not have been known and written down in beforehand? The Qur'an describes many future events that is being fulfilled continously. And IT was revealed and written down over 1400 years ago. And we are still counting the fulfillments being done, one by one. Of course when it is the words of Allah, SWT it is so. He KNOWS what man does not know.


Allah, SWT is All Knowing, that means He knows ALL things, past, today and future. Here you are saying that He does not know the future. So then the conclusion must be that the NT is written by MEN since common MEN cannot KNOW the future events. It is only Allah, SWT that does.


Regards

[reepicheep]

> Finally some Christian_for_Jews admitted that the


> New Testament is not the "Word of Jesus",


Not sure what you mean by this sentence. If you mean that Jesus didn't physically write the New Testament, then you are correct. But eye witnesses recorded the words of Jesus and recorded them in the gospels.


The majority of the letters (epistles) in the New Testament were written by Paul. Christians readily admit this. Some were also written by John, Peter, Jude, and James.


I hope this clears up your confusion, Rehmat.

[Rehmat]

> Finally some Christian_for_Jews admitted that the
> New Testament is not the "Word of Jesus",


Not sure what you mean by this sentence.  If you mean that Jesus didn't physically write the New Testament, then you are correct.  But eye witnesses recorded the words of Jesus and recorded them in the gospels.


The majority of the letters (epistles) in the New Testament were written by Paul.  Christians readily admit this.  Some were also written by John, Peter, Jude, and James.


I hope this clears up your confusion, Rehmat.

Clear up - Hmmmmmm!


It's just one of those lies repeated again and again by the Jews (Oops, Christians). It has got to a stage that it's getting boring now - historically speaking


Paul (Saul, the Jew) or the rest of four "writers of Gospels", for that matter never met Jesus (as). Paul was told my Jesus' half-brother, Peter' to "wash his mouth" for telling lies about the Master, while the others copied from one another plus added more distortion to Moses' Law (Torah).


BTW - Why you avoided to answer "the Jewish portion" of my post

[reepicheep]

umm Zachariah wrote:


> IF it is revelation from Allah, SWT - WHY could future events


> not have been known and written down in beforehand?


God of course knows the future. And in many cases, there are passages in the bible which are considered to be predictions of the future (e.g., the many passages that predict the second coming of Jesus). But this doesn't apply to all the books in the bible.


For example, the book of Philemon in the New Testament is simply a letter, written by Paul, where Paul pleads for mercy on behalf of a runaway slave. The letter was written while Paul was in jail, approximately 30 years after the death of Jesus. The fact that Paul isn't "predicting the future", but simply writing a letter about a runaway slave, does not prove or disprove that the Bible is divinely inspired.

[reepicheep]

Rehmat wrote:


> BTW - Why you avoided to answer "the Jewish portion"


> of my post


In the above comment, I assume you are referring to your earlier comment:


> But one see such lies in the Jewish Old Testament - Which


> tells us that Moses wrote the incident of his own death


I assume you are referring here to the book of Deuteronomy, which ends with a description of the death of Moses.


Most, but not all, biblical scholars believe that the majority of the book of Deuteronomy was written by Moses (in particular, the first 33 chapters). Chapter 34, which describes the death of Moses, was obviously NOT written by Moses. Think of chapter 34 as being a concluding appendix to the book of Deuteronomy, written by someone who wanted to complete the "story of Moses".

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Reepicheep,


<i>''...written by Paul,...'' </i>


should mean man-made then? You don't have to answer that, it is just a reflection from my side when I read it. It is also a very sidestep to the subject, so better leave it.


<i>''The fact that Paul isn't "predicting the future", ... does not prove or disprove that the Bible is divinely inspired.''</i>


This answer do not go along with the question I put to you about this 'future event', not in the context of it. It was, if I may back a bit to the previous answer,


<i>''Obviously, these events couldn't have been written down during the "time of Jesus" since the events hadn't occurred yet.'' </i>


You wrote that some things COULD NOT have been written down earlier SINCE the event HAD NOT OCCURED yet. That is not the same thing as you are responding to now. You are turning the question into another answer, as I understand it?


BUT you say <i>''God of course knows the future.''</i> And that was MY point to, but you answered that since events had not yet taken place it could not have been written down beforehand. But of course they could, IF it is revelation from Allah, SWT.


Regards

[Rehmat]

Most, but not all, biblical scholars believe that the majority of the book of Deuteronomy was written by Moses (in particular, the first 33 chapters).  Chapter 34, which describes the death of Moses, was obviously NOT written by Moses.  Think of chapter 34 as being a concluding appendix to the book of Deuteronomy, written by someone who wanted to complete the "story of Moses".

Hmmmmmmm!


Looks like you dropped a second stone on your "little toe" within just fifteen minutes. Not a small progress for a Christian_for_Jews

[ronniv93]

Umm,


In your questioning about "future events", you are making it seem like you expect the scriptures of God to be nothing more than prophetic words of the future. What gives you this idea?


Does the Quran only speak of future events? No.


Does the Quran not document some historical items? Yes, it does.


In fact, in your religion, there were parts of the Quran that were not even revealed until a specific event occurred in the life of your prophet and THEN, all of a sudden, a revelation comes.


Furthermore, there are many, many things that took place in the early community of Muslims that was not written down or predicted in the Quran. The point of scripture is NOT to predict every single event that will occur in every single community of believers.


You don't expect the Quran to do this, so why do you expect it from the Bible?

[Anyabwile]

In fact, in your religion, there were parts of the Quran that were not even "revealed" until a specific event occurred in the life of your prophet and THEN, all of a sudden, a "revelation" comes. 

Offensive. Why put revealed in quote marks, and write "all of a sudden". This is the deliberate offensiveness we on this forum are being told not to come at Christians with, but you come at us with. Why Ronni? If you are simply a happy Christian confident in your faith and simply learning, does a student use such a deliberately offensive tone when simply learning about something? You are exposing yourself.

[ronniv93]

Anya, you have GOT to stop being so sensitive! I put "revealed" in quotation marks because I am actually 1) respecting the fact that Muslims use this term and believe the Quran was revealed and 2) to indicate that *I* don't personally believe that.


I have been in dialogues before and used terms like "revealed" and then had Muslims say, "See, you used the word yourself, so you admit the Quran was revealed" and other such things. Thus, I try to use terms that Muslims use for their own religion and yet distinguish your beliefs from mine.


And actually, for "all of a sudden", that's how I see it; I'm sure that Muslims would say that it was perfect timing for the relevant ayats to be revealed. My point to Umm_Zachariah is that not even the Quran predicted every single, little thing that was going to occur. Some things weren't written until AFTER an event (or set of events) occurred, too. So what's true of the Quran is also true of the Bible in this particular situation.


But if quotation marks bother you that much, fine, I won't use them. It'll save me some key strokes, if nothing else.