Posts: 326
Threads: 10
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation:
0
01-13-2005, 03:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2005, 03:49 PM by Anyabwile.)
Many times a verse in the Noble Qur'an is pointed out to me where Allah describes some people as being "deaf and dumb to the truth" And who ever Allah guides no one can misguide and vice versa. So sometimes should we have to keep constantly receiving the batterings from the same people over and over and over?
We're told in the Qur'an to give Da'wah but that's it. If they are not getting it by now, do we have to keep entertaining them? Over and over and over? If new and different people are coming and asking questions, then of course, spread the word and share Islam. But if it's the same person / people over and over again...as far as i've been told, it's not our job to continuously entertain them or try to convince them. In fact it's almost the opposite. We give Da'wah and offer the teachings of Islam, but that's it. the ultimate Job of who is guided and who isn't is with Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala) So there's only so much we can do. We have our own issues to discuss.
As i've said elsewhere i've found the truth so unlike them, i have no need to still go searching. There's only so much we can, or should do. Who Allah guides by them taking steps to seek the truth no one can misguide and who Allah misguides due to them seeking another path of Kafir, no one can guide. I don't see the point in continually going back and forth with the same people, who come here to learn, receive the knowledge, then get scared when it starts to look like the truth, thus start an attack. It's tiresome and starting to look real pathetic.
Posts: 241
Threads: 54
Joined: Jun 2003
Reputation:
0
![[Image: bismillah.gif]](http://www.algonet.se/~icmalmo/bismillah.gif)
(86)Tariq, 15-17
As for them, they are but plotting a scheme,
And I am planning a scheme.
Therefore grant a delay to the unbelievers: give respite to them gently for a while.
Hope that helps. ![[Image: dry.gif]](http://www.islamsms.com/bb/html/emoticons/dry.gif)
Posts: 7,440
Threads: 859
Joined: Aug 2002
Reputation:
0
01-14-2005, 08:29 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2005, 08:58 AM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah
as salam alykom brothers and sisters
Although I fully agree with Dan on the necessity to stay on topic, since the visitor may get confused and not find his/her aimed for info, but I agree with Anay of the Dawa concept he made. Mash a Allah,
In some cases we just get carried out by our passion to gain the reward of helping others becom Muslims.
Where as it all depends on the person if he /she really wants to which is only known to Allah. Other wise we throw the seed, move on and not stand there to seek personal credit. We can only give the info on the required topic but not push. As I said I sometimes feel we are beging. WE should not. We have the invaluable goods Alhamdulelah. Let them extert some effort as well.
So yes when they come here day after day, they are most welcome, also we understand their insecurity, also we take Allah Being Assabour in consideration as well as the All Pardon, He Prdon them yes. But we can actually do more than just focusing on one member when we can see him/her draining effort.
We are not here either to listen to heroic stories or attract attention by making certain accusations. If we can help Islam fine, if not we can sit and learn.
Brothers and sisters, let us not only defend Islam (in the sense that it is not correct) but teach Islam.
Posts: 7,440
Threads: 859
Joined: Aug 2002
Reputation:
0
Bismillah
thinking about the situation brought me online again
we actually need to make a blend and balance between Umm's opinion and Anya's and at the end Allah Say:
"So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." <b>And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned</b>: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" <b>If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message
</b>; and in Allah's sight are (all) His servants. " (Quran 3: 20)
Bsides the fact of quoting this Ayahs for my brothers and sisters (the red bolded part) to see what Allah Commanded us to do. we never said dont reply, why are we here then? again it is not our duty to question the intention but this is what Allah Say.
ronniv this is another position where Allah Used Ummyeen which is translated here as unlearned.
Allah in this Ayah is Commanding the Messenger Salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam to tell the people of the book and those who are illiterate. Because the Messenger Salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam was sent to all of mankind as well as the jinn. Unlike other prophets and Messengers who were always sent only to their own people.
Posts: 1,129
Threads: 34
Joined: Jul 2003
Reputation:
0
Bismillah
As Salam alaikum
It is a fine line that we must walk between spreading the message and not wasting our efforts. Of course, I know that I am more likely to give up hope way before the Messenger would when giving da'wah to nonmuslims. The best we can do is to compare our efforts to those of the prophet's.
As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu
Posts: 7,440
Threads: 859
Joined: Aug 2002
Reputation:
0
Bismillah
as salam alykom
True Dan a thin line
I know u and me might end up slpitting this topic and taking it elsewhere because it started Mash a Allah getting good ideas. But ok let me carry on
For my brothers and sisters who are here to spread Islam. what is the aim? to teach and learn Islam. If this is done with a provoking tone, dedicating posts to criticize other religions while we re not identifying ourselves as anti anything, replying to posts in a sarcastic manner.
what is the output? nothing but useless effort and time.
On the other hand when the non Muslim member ferquesntly asks the same questions when they are already taken care of on the board, still time and effort is wasted.
True a thin line and need of balance.
Posts: 225
Threads: 7
Joined: Oct 2004
Reputation:
0
Quote: "So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah's sight are (all) His servants. " (Quran 3: 20)
ronniv this is another position where Allah Used Ummyeen which is translated here as unlearned.
Allah in this Ayah is Commanding the Messenger Salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam to tell the people of the book and those who are illiterate. Because the Messenger Salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam was sent to all of mankind as well as the jinn.
Why then is the term "ummyeen" contrasted with "people of the book"?
Logically speaking, I would look at the grammatical use here and say, Okay, if on the one hand we have "The People of the Book" then the contrast would be "People without the Book."
This is not clear that it means illiterate.
There have been TONS of followers of both Judaism and Christianity throughout history who were illiterate. But the Quran just calls them "People of the Book", nonetheless, because they follow the precepts and teachings of the revelations given to mankind. So, the contrast would be other people "without the book."
This view would fit into Muslim beliefs that Muhammad would be sent to all mankind as well. Because if Muhammad is just told to go to the Christians Jews (People of the Book) and the illiterates of the world, then that leaves out all the <b>literate</b> people who may be followers of other religions or atheists, agnostic, etc.
Posts: 285
Threads: 109
Joined: Oct 2004
Reputation:
0
Hmmmmmmmmmm!
Quote:Logically speaking, I would look at the grammatical use here and say, Okay, if on the one hand we have "The People of the Book" then the contrast would be "People without the Book."
“Logically speaking” has very funny interpretations – For example, Jews are the “Chosen People”; “Palestine was Promised to Jews”; “Jews did not created most of man-made evil dogmas”, and “Saddam Hussain has WMDs”!
Now the “People of Book”, stuff – Historically, the “People of Book (Yahud, Nasarah and Sabian)” in Holy Qur’an, are “mis-translated” as Jews and Christians (during the Prophet and the present-day). It should be read as “Follower of Moses’ Law” and “the Nazarene (true followers of Jesus).
The book that is called today the Bible (both OT and NT) did not exist at the time of the Prophet Isa (Jesus). If you look in the Bible you will find “most” writings are neither from God nor Jesus, but are what others wrote by their own initiative, some probably from heresy; therefore, the Bible is not the Injeel of Isa (Injeel of Isa is what was revealed to Isa and that was what he preached). What Christians have in the Bible are mainly other people’s recordings. Christian scholars have also a history of changing with the times, and changing things in the Bible itself to suit the people; this is a well known fact and one which every lay Christian should know. It’s also noteworthy to mention that while Bible contains some good moral teachings it also contains stuff that can at best be classified as “ungodly” material. Christians who read the Bible will testify to this and it’s not Muslims who wrote these "unholy" stuff, but people who profess the Christian faith.
Quote:This is not clear that it means illiterate.
There have been TONS of followers of both Judaism and Christianity throughout history who were illiterate. But the Quran just calls them "People of the Book", nonetheless, because they follow the precepts and teachings of the revelations given to mankind. So, the contrast would be other people "without the book."
In English language “illiterate” means – a person who is NOT EDUCATED to read or write (as there are over 54 million in the US), but they still sign there names in English to get their “Welfare cheques”! On the other hand “Ummi (Un-lettered)” means – a person who was educated to read or write – but even cannot sign his name in his own mother tongue (Arabic in case of the Prophet).
Quote:This view would fit into Muslim beliefs that Muhammad would be sent to all mankind as well. Because if Muhammad is just told to go to the Christians Jews (People of the Book) and the illiterates of the world, then that leaves out all the <b>literate</b> people who may be followers of other religions or atheists, agnostic, etc.
The Prophet preached Allah’ message to all of your buddies you mentioned – both EDUCATED and ILLITERATE – On the other hand, if you can READ your OT or NT – you WILL find out that all Israelite prophets, including Jesus (as) came just for those cunning Jews, who keep on rebelling against their G-d for all times.
Posts: 308
Threads: 7
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation:
0
Rehmat wrote:
> The book that is called today the Bible (both OT and NT)
> did not exist at the time of the Prophet Isa (Jesus).
Many portions of the New Testament describe events which occur many years after the death of Jesus (for example, the letters that Paul wrote). Obviously, these events couldn't have been written down during the "time of Jesus" since the events hadn't occurred yet.
Posts: 285
Threads: 109
Joined: Oct 2004
Reputation:
0
Quote:Rehmat wrote:
> The book that is called today the Bible (both OT and NT)
> did not exist at the time of the Prophet Isa (Jesus).
Many portions of the New Testament describe events which occur many years after the death of Jesus (for example, the letters that Paul wrote). Obviously, these events couldn't have been written down during the "time of Jesus" since the events hadn't occurred yet.
Holy Cow - Finally some Christian_for_Jews admitted that the New Testament is not the "Word of Jesus", but written by others -could not be Gentile, or could they :rolleyes:
But one see such lies in the Jewish Old Testament - Which tells us that Moses wrote the incident of his own death :wub:
|
