What Is The Christian Perspective...

[Anyabwile]

Interesting hearing the Christian response to the disaster on TV in particular. On Christian channels, and the most popular, one Songs Of Praise in the UK, the answer to why God has done this is not to test us or definately not judgement. One reverend described people who think it is some kind of judgement as fools (Rev John Bell). His response was the reason why the Tsunami raised and wiped out so many people, was so in the resulting pain and grief God can share in the suffering and be there with his children.


He then seemed to imply God had nothing to do with the disaster. Because the people once asked Jesus why the tower fell on a group of them, they asked if it was a Judgement. Jesus just said "no it was simply a tower and it fell" The reverend likened this story to the disaster, these were his own words.


So my Question to Christians who scan this board, is does God in Christianity as you practice it have any control over the elements? Because according to this reverend on TV he doesn't, things just happen for no reason. This is opposite to Islamic thought...


<b><i>"Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!" (The Noble Qur'an 21-16)</i></b>


Please help. Am confused. Genuine Question. Was this reverend an Idiot, or is this the view you hold give or take a denomination or sect. I'm not asking for the Christian "Answer" to this disaster as we can all agree only God knows best. But i'm interested in how a Christian explains this to themselves, to the best of their Human ability.


Assalamu Alalikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh

[Rehmat]

So my Question to Christians who scan this board, is does God in Christianity as you practice it have any control over the elements?

Well brother if you had seen Mel Gibson's movie 'The Passion' - you would certainly not have this question. According to the movie, Father (God) did not have the power to save His 'Son' from the hands of Pagan Roman and their Jew collaborators. So He told St. Paul, that He let His 'Son' being sacrified for the SALVATION of the Christians.

[ronniv93]

Hello again, Anyabwile. I'll offer up my personal thoughts on the matter for you.

On Christian channels, and the most popular, one Songs Of Praise in the UK, the answer to why God has done this is not to test us or definately not judgement.

<b>Was it a test?</b>


I don't know that it was some sort of test. A test for what and to prove what? I can't imagine how the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people could be used (or why it would be used) to test the rest of the people remaining on earth. So, I don't think it was a test of any kind.


<b>Was it judgment?</b>


Maybe. We may never know until we reach Heaven and God tells us Himself. Throughout history, we see the wrath and judgment of God upon people for continued disobedience to His will. So, it could very well be judgment or maybe not at all. I don't believe anyone can say for sure unless God reveals that directly to a person.

One reverend described people who think it is some kind of judgement as fools (Rev John Bell).

I don't know this minister, but I don't know how he could say this statement. From the earliest recordings of the Bible to the very last book, Revelation, we see that God's wrath and judgment indeed can be carried out in such manners and even worse. He should be careful using the word "fools", for the Bible records that a "fool" is the one who says in his heart that there is no God. Thus, this term is being misapplied and misused, regardless of what his personal beliefs on the Tsunami are.

His response was the reason why the Tsunami raised and wiped out so many people, was so in the resulting pain and grief God can share in the suffering and be there with his children.

Hmmm.... So, he calls anyone who thinks this may have been judgment "fools", but then his theory is that God caused the suffering so that He can be there for the people who have been pained by the situation??? Weird.

He then seemed to imply God had nothing to do with the disaster.

This could very well be the case, too. Christianity teaches that the first human beings, Adam and Eve, committed sin against God when they disobeyed Him and ate of the forbidden tree. Ever since then, sin has been poisoning every aspect of the world. In the beginning, creation was perfect. I doubt that there were tornados and hurricanes and forest fires. Adam and Eve were able to live amongst the animals of the world without fear.


But because sin entered the earth, it is polluting everything and the Bible says that the wages of sin is death. So, we see continual and gradual breakdowns throughout the earth and society as a whole as time goes on.


In any case, it could just be the result of this fallen world that we live in.

Because the people once asked Jesus why the tower fell on a group of them, they asked if it was a Judgement. Jesus just said "no it was simply a tower and it fell"

Huh?? Never heard of this story before. A tower falling on people??? Hmm...

So my Question to Christians who scan this board, is does God in Christianity as you practice it have any control over the elements?

Yes, He has control. Why God chooses to exercise or not exercise control at such times, we will never know unless He reveals it to us.


God is said to "hold the heart of the king in His hand," and yet there are evil people all over the earth. God HAS the power to control, but I don't believe He always exercises this control. Why He does or does not is His business. I am but His creation just trying to have relationship with Him even while not understanding everything that He does.


To sum it up, I simply believe that something like this is either 1) God's judgment upon a people or nation or 2) simply a result of living in this fallen, sin-ridden world.


Hope I helped answer your question, at least from my own, limited perspective.

[alliex]

Salam,


Anyabwile l will try to answer your question from a christiam perspective, bearing in mind that I was once a Christian myslef.

the reason why the Tsunami raised and wiped out so many people, was so in the resulting pain and grief God can share in the suffering and be there with his children.
This above quote baffeles me. I don't know why a reverent would say something like that. Why would God want pain to be upon his children in the first place?




<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="2427" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>He then seemed to imply God had nothing to do with the disaster. Because the people once asked Jesus why the tower fell on a group of them, they asked if it was a Judgement. Jesus just said "no it was simply a tower and it fell" The reverend likened this story to the disaster, these were his own words.
In my short lifetime I've never read this in the bible. So my thought is that cause Christianty has so many diffrent sects (Catholics, Anglicans, Baptise, Uniting Church) that they all have there own version of what has happened in the bible. Funny but true. The Christians are suppose to believe in the same thing but they all beleive in something slightly diffrent.




<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="2427" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So my Question to Christians who scan this board, is does God in Christianity as you practice it have any control over the elements? Because according to this reverend on TV he doesn't, things just happen for no reason. This is opposite to Islamic thought...
Well as a child I got taught that everything happens for a reason and it is God's will. But that could be more of my Islamic anture talking now. When I was little my aunty died. my mother said that she was going through so much pain on earth as she didn't have a good husband that God wanted to end her suffering and take her home to be with him. I guess that might expalin the Tsunami. That there so much suffering going on or it may be judgement. But things do happen for a reason.


Just quickly I want to add something to what Rehmat wrote.

Well brother if you had seen Mel Gibson's movie 'The Passion' - you would certainly not have this question. According to the movie, Father (God) did not have the power to save His 'Son' from the hands of Pagan Roman and their Jew collaborators. So He told St. Paul, that He let His 'Son' being sacrified for the SALVATION of the Christians.
I've never heard of the above but to my knowledge according to the Christians it was God will to let his Son be crucified. See God knows everything and he knows the pain in thw world and he wanted us to have our sins forgiven that is why he sent his son; this is according to the Christians.


I am sorry to say this but Christians and the bible contridict itself every two seconds. One person beleives one thing and the other beleives something else even though they have the same religion.


I must say thank you to Allah for bringing the last prophet Mohammed (bless be to him) or we would be very confused people.


Wasalam




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[Anyabwile]

Hmmmm that actually helped, thank you for the responses Ronnie and Allilex and Rehmat. Ronnie it's good to see you back even though you seemed to have returned real angry in the other posts! , and i don't agree with some of what you say in them. But i don't respond now, i feel so horrible for being harsh on you the first time around if you're arguing in a post i just leave it normally. regardless thanks for answering.


I have never heard the tower story the Rev said either but i don't know the Bible only small bits so i wouldn't know. Of course only Allah / God knows anything but it does get you thinking. A lot of Christians on this program said it had tested their faith but they still hold on to being Christian firmly and wont stop they say.


Personally from my own perspective, as a Muslim it didn't test my faith one bit. If anything it re affirmed it, especially the circumstanes around it. (Tsunami almost coming out of nowhere, The Muslims in some of the areas "officially" no longer praying anymore, Majority of Muslims there not practising, Hadith of the Prophet - Peace be upon him. The state of the world, many other things) Of course this is my own limited views and opinions. But they make the most sense to me. In fact when i think of how perfect the earth is in every way for us, distance of the sun to the exact digit, exact balance of oxygen, exact balance of water, and i mean <b>exact</b> look into it! everything is perfectly measured for us. For freak "natural disasters" to happen like this is so opposed to the natural order of the planet it has to be Allah / God, people describing the wave rising like a bath filling up, the wave hitting out of no where. To me, it all coincides with verses i read in the Qur'an. To me it's a sign, billions around the world have seen, and can have no excuses on the day they will be questioned as to their ignorance of Gods signs.


It's when people confuse this life now, as being more important, or the final step then the life we are all striving for...the hereafter, even Christians i belive, it's when the emphasis is put soo much on this life now, which is a test, when we as Humans find any notion that God has done this abhorrent. To me if you sit calmly and look at this, it's not so strange at all to imagine God doing this. To us it is, because some of us think this life is all, this is it, those people are gone for good, their lives over what a waste. When in reality, their "lives" will be just starting. The world as we know it is a testing ground it's not the final. This is very hard to accept if you don't have faith i imagine. Anyway interesting reading the responses. Jazakallahu khayran

[Rehmat]

I've never heard of the above but to my knowledge according to the Christians it was God will to let his Son be crucified. See God knows everything and he knows the pain in thw world and he wanted us to have our sins forgiven that is why he sent his son; this is according to the Christians

Asslam-o-Aliakum


Well if you have seen 'The Passion' - you would understand what I meant.


However, the true nature of Crucification is that the Jews wanted to prove that Jesus (as) was not the 'Promised Messiah', but an IMPOSTER. So, the proved it by OT - "The one who dies hanging by a tree - is the cursed one...." The Pauline Christians took that as "Father sacrifying His son for the salvation of Christians" - as "counter-balance" against the Jews.


If it had really happened, why the Christian scholars waited for 325 year to "cook" this story? :blink:


Wa Salaam

[alliex]

salam,


Just in to reply to Rehmat, I id watch the movie but I don't remeber that bit happening in the film, thats all. See Christians don't know what they are going on about any how.


Wa salam

[ronniv93]

Alliex, is all of that really necessary?


Is it really that important to insult Christian beliefs so regularly, frequently and blatantly? <b>Especially</b> on the board that is dedicated to "Non-Muslim Guests"??? On the other boards, I would think I'd just have to take whatever was dished out because they're dedicated to Muslims/Muslim topics/Muslim perspectives, etc. But here, I don't think it's called for.


Oh and to Anyabwile, to address something you brought up in your post.... I didn't come back angry or anything. I was in a bit of disbelief regarding how arrogant the writer of that particular article was and how ungrateful. But not angry. Just FYI....

[NewBeginning]

From what I've been taught as being a Christian my whole life....


Yes God does control all the elements....... afterall, He's the one who created them. LOL.


TV evangelists are the last people on earth to get an impression from. Even Christians can't stand them.


There was recently an article, some bishop of Cantebury or something said that people have questioned their faith in God over the Tsunami disaster.


Personally, I believe that this was not a test by God, nor a punishment. It was an opportunity. If you look back to the beginning of ANY scripture..... you can see the underlying message there....... when Adam and Eve named all the creatures and birds and everything that crawled. Basically what this is saying is....... we see, we percieve, and we name it. Now, we saw this Tsunami, we percieved it as a bad thing, so therefore we called it a bad thing. However, what we percieve may not be exactly correct. It's just our perception. We created the idea of good and bad..... only God knows what is what........ like I said, afterall, he created it. We only label it........ we have faults.


The reason I call it an opportunity is because.... 1. Again, in the beginning EVERYTHING God made was good. That immediately tells you that nothing God creates is going to bad NOTHING. Which is why I am against original sin. Why would God do that to us? That tree in the garden of eden wasn't a test either. moving along....... 2. Think about this........ what major life lessons have you learned during the happiest moments in life? you would probably answer none.... because when we are at our happiest..... we are in a simple state of bliss.......... but when we suffer, that is when we contemplate all of life's meanings. It is through hardship that we discover our connection with God, life's purpose, and how we treat others as well as ourselves.


This may be hard to swallow, but the Tsunami was a blessing. Yes, alot of people died.... but where do you think they went? If you believe in life after death.... then all those people dead on the shore shouldn't bother you..... THEY MET GOD. And if I had a choice between sitting here on the PC talking to you, and meeting face to face with God, I would rather have the latter.


Those bodies on the shores are nothing but empty packages..... those aren't people anymore.... they are the simple shell that carried their soul....... the package is empty now..... their soul is else where. It's like crying over a damaged box when you know the contents are safely placed on your shelf.


As for the people left behind..... the children without parents, the parents without children..... only God knows their future, and none of us knows what God has in store for them....... through this disaster.......... they now have an opportunity to look towards their earthly brothers and sisters in a compassionate way that they may have never used before. Instead of breaking their heart, this will also open thier hearts.... something that may have never occured had it not been for the Tsunami.

[Anyabwile]

Oh and to Anyabwile, to address something you brought up in your post.... I didn't come back angry or anything. I was in a bit of disbelief regarding how arrogant the writer of that particular article was and how ungrateful. But not angry. Just FYI....

Ok Allhumdullilah. You're not angry just that writer. Ok good! Ronnie i'm learning that as i go to other boards i have to accept Islamaphobia. I'm not even talking other christian boards, any other faith besides Islam seems to attack Islam. Of course we are told this will happen in our book. What i'm being told by people is to ignore it. As impossible as it may seem you'll probably have to do this here as well. I know how it is though, sometimes you see someone say something about your faith and it's hard not to respond. But when i used to go to the Christian boards or anywhere else. I just used to have to stomach it until i left. I still feel the same about Christians and don't understand them but i keep it to myself now, and if i have a concern, i voice it like the post here. Now i just stay on this board and don't bother with the others i find it easier. Don't think i'm saying go and dont come back, just letting you know how i handle attacks on my faith. God Bless.