Adultery – In Biblical And Islamic Terms

[Rehmat]

I keep hearing in my mind..... "He who is without sin, cast the first stone".  Jesus says this in the Bible,....

Salaam.


First of all the implication of this saying in context with the rest of Biblical story is that what Jesus (as) meantwas - ONLY SINLESS PEOPLE ARE ENTITLE TO POINT FINGERS ON OTHERS' SINS. It has nothing to do with the stoning of adultry - which is carried out by government officials of an Islamic State under Shari'ah.


My point is based on another saying of Jesus (Gospel Matthew), where he says, "I have not come to abolish Law of Moses, but to implement it." Whereas, according to Torah Jewish Scripture, stoning is prescribed as PUNISHMENT for the crime of adultry.


However, as Muslims, we should not take Biblical statements on their face values - as according to hundreds of Christian religious researchers, it has been proved that nearly 80% of statements quoted to Jesus (as) are FABRICATED (Dr. Robert Funk). However, Muslims should take only those Biblical statements, which are confirmed by Holy Qur'an as the Words of Allah.


Allah knows the best.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


1. Umm dont worry John does read the rest of the posts even if likes to pretend he is ignoring them. and I see your point we always responded to his posts for the sake of placing the info.


2. Thank u rehmat for clarifying the point to Laian.


3. Laian the hadeeth is included in full story in one of the links. It had nothing to do with the Messenger forgiving her, since originally he does not own the authority neither did Allah Delegated it to him. As rehmat indicated Eassa's saying is different. The Messenger meant and it was even confirmed with the case of Maiz, not to spread bad deeds.


One more point she was sent back 3 times because she was pregnant but she insisted to be cleansed in this life.

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Hi JohnDoe,


I do think you do understand that the Tom and Jerry comparison has nothing to do with playing games with Shari'ah. And neither do I. That is also why I take the given law very serious and do wish to obey it. So to pinpoint again, adultery is a very serious crime and must be avoided. If you truly feel you have not gripped yet that Islam contains of TWO sources, the Qur'an and the Prophet's Sunnah, then you are right, I have failed in trying to explain it. Therefore IF your intentions to understand is serious you could also learn from the other posts. But again - it must be your choice and it also depends on your sincere interest.


John, I do think it may be better if YOU raise whatever question about Islam that you are looking for to be answered, since everyone has not the same questions at the same time and many come from different angles. So instead I welcome you to open up what is closest on YOUR mind. Put it down on the 'non Muslim' and I will read it. And I do hope you are willing to expand to other views too.


It is truly a great opportunity to be able to raise questions like this, you can use it in a positive way.


Regards

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Hi JohnDoe,


I am sure I am not making things cryptic... why would I? To make myself run around in circles?


<i>''...dubious haddith ..''</i>


It may be high time to catch up on the subject, what do you think? You could try reading through http://www.muslimtents.com/aminahsworld/Sc...e_of_hadith.htm and hopefully it will be benefitting for you insha'Allah.


<i>''Don't you find it odd to be telling me about compassion, mercy, tolerance etc, etc, etc and then in the next sentence you find yourself defending a barbaric punishment ?''</i>


I think this may be a bit tricky for you to take in at first sight, since YOUR basic view is quite different as I understand it. I understand that you think adultery is no big deal, and I agree in non-Muslim countries it truly looks like that and therefore also the morality is at it lowest in general. There are no 'borders' longer, the aim to take responsibility seems to have been swept off, and then everything is allowed and ALSO acceptable. The teachings of morality in Islam is very far from this behaviour, and I think it may be the reason you find this so difficult to understand that there will be a punishment AT ALL, since adultery is not being punished in non-Muslims countries, so I believe. So there are several thresholds to pass on the way, first to believe that adultery IS a crime so one shall not commit it, then realizing that it is not only a criminal act but also morally wrong, and if caught one can be punished for it. So you have some way to travel to find the insight I think. I have accepted that I cannot compete with Allah's, SWT wisdom. He knows what I don't know. He is our Creator and He knows us better than we know ourselves. So of course HE is the best to know what is acceptable and what is not and how we shall be punished.


<i>''...developed countries such in Europe, USA etc. ''</i>


These words make me ! Sorry! To me there is a difference in development and development. If you mean that man can be sent to the moon, and that we can take pictures with our mobilephones, and have operations done via a surgeon in another country via computer well there I agree with you, SOME not all, the technical advancements may be benefitting for people, but develop to no longer know what is right and wrong, well that is not going forward but the contrary and without a good moral behaviour, what is the rest worth then?


<i>''It was you who brought it, what happened, change your mind ?''</i>


I wish I knew WHAT it is that I am supposed to have changed my mind about ? But what I was trying to forward was that since this is a FORUM and there are many knowable brothers and siters here ready to update, so it can be more benefitting for you to take the views of us ALL, it will surely give you several answers and more variable ones I guess. Don't you think it could be a good idea?


Regards

[Anyabwile]

I can meet you halfway on this for sure. However, adultery is not a criminal act and neither is sex (any kind) between consenting adults.

In your opinion.

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Hi JohnDoe,


I will leave this issue since I suspect you cannot comprehend the difference between right and wrong when it concerns this. I draw the conclusion that you disagree with our Creator while I submit to Him, two very different approaches to faith.


I didn't think we were discussing whether or not it was our, whoever we are, business HOW or what people do, wasn't it that it is the business of our Creator?


Regards

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


Hi JohnDoe,


IF you feel convinced then I have nothing further to add for now.


But I do hope your search will continue though. That you have jumped on the merry go round and are enjoing the rid and don't want it to stop...


Will not join in any discussions here for the week to come, maybe a time for reflections can be in place? Where sincerity leads shall not be underestimated...


Regards

[Anyabwile]

<b>Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem</b>

I hope you do not go away from this thinking I enjoy this, to poke fun at your religion.

He's not here to poke fun at the religion, here are not even half of some of his comments. For the rest, type Johndoe into search and see for yourself, start at the beginning why not? Below is just from since i've been here, which is from September. I really couldn't be bothered to go back any further, <b>he's been here since 2003</b> under John Doe, and longer under his other names, so you work out how long he's been mocking our religion.


But anyway remember in his own words, he's not here to poke fun at the religion...

I believe that a criminal should be punished but not according to religious superstitious <b>mumbo jumbo</b>.

Next you will be telling me Islam is a "religion of peace."

Regarding forum Mod, Dan getting a divorce....

Maybe you should just have your spouse killed as Mohammad prescribed ?

marriage was dreamt up by religious ignorant cave dwelling zealots

Note, he's talking about The Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) here.
And again...

In my opinion, marriage was dreamt up by the superstitious cave dwelling religious zealots of a few thousand years ago, therefor the assertion that adultery is a sin against god cuts no ice with me.

I could just about be persuaded that the death sentence may be warranted for murder, but for adultery ? Are you living in the dark ages or something?....oops, don't answer that.

Remember, in his own words...he's not here to mock the religion. Let's continue....

I'm going out to celebrate with a nice dinner, a few glasses of wine and a few beers in the pub with the boys !!

How respectful considering he is writing in the company of Muslims. Not here to mock us though, remember this. Very important. He is not here to mock us. JohnDoe's respect for Muslim sisters and women...

Yes, this so called "equality" for women in Islam was not so apparant in Afghanistan under the taliban where women were beaten in the street for revealing an ankle or some such nonsense or in Saudie Arabia where women are not allowed to mix with men or drive cars etc. Or in Pakistan where womens rights are abused. Or Iran where young couples are forbidden to hold hands in public. Oh yes, womens rights in Islam, what a joke. And let us not forget that little gem about a man being allowed to beat their wive(s) for not towing the line or the humiliation of a husband having more than one wife and the general concept is this, the woman becomes so dependant on a man that she is unable to function on her own. She is not allowed to leave the house without male permission etc etc. There is nothing that marginalises a woman more than religious dogma. The old and new testamants and Islam are full of misogynistic teachings. This superiority complex that muslims have in regard to treatment of women is a myth, get overyourselves.

Yet oops, it's the fasted growing religion growing 200 times faster than Christianity, and 4 out of 6 reverts to the religion are women (it may be more than this someone correct me). Errr....John? Explain please? Good grief get lost man. Why you jealous, you can be down too, just say Shahada...actually, don't bother.

Unfortunately, due to PC correctness, it cannot be said that the war is against Islam for fear of offending the PC fascists who trot out the "islam is a religion of peace" dogma while the casual observer can see that<b> it is anything but</b>

His sympathy for Abu Graib....

Yes, unfortunately Abu Graib is very real, I accept that and deplore what went on there, not only with what the american "soldiers" did to a fellow human being but also to past attrocities committed under hussein's regime.
Where was the Arab indignation then ? I don't recall much being said in the Arab world when Hussein was brutalising Iraqi citizens, gassing Kurds and menacing (and invading) his neighbours. But <b>stick a pair on panties on an Iraqi terrorist</b>...NOW THAT HAS GOT TO STOP !!

So they were all terrorists then were they Johnny? Nice one, panties joke was great as well. I'm sure the "Terrorist" gettin urinated on having Dogs attack him, being dragged on the floor and gettin beaten everynight, while watching US soldiers rip up the Qur'an would have found your joke funny as well. Well he would have if he wasn't beaten to a bloody pulp dead. Nice one "mate"


And we carry on...

Islam was spread to spread the authority of mohammad and his arab cohorts. I see no difference in the spread of arab imperialism to that of european imperialism.

A post was made about the Battle fought in Ramadan...JohnDoe respects our sacred month by telling us...

Just spreading the good word at the point of a sword.

But remember, he's not here to Mock our religion he said.

It's not me that needs to learn about islam, it is the would be self detonating jihadis that blow themselves up that need to learn about islam or the<b> misogynist muslims that believe it is ok to beat their wives because allah said so</b>

Well the jihad is going extremely well ! 2 days in a row and 2 more infidels brutally murdered. Are you really, really sure this is a religion of peace ?

Regarding these forums...

as a resource, there is nothing here of value

And this one is one of my favourites, comparing Muslims to Nazi's. Classic...

To say that islam is a religion (of peace), is a bit like saying that the nazi party is a trade workers union.

About us...the Muslims...

a bunch of savages hurling rocks

These are the posts i remember by the names of the topics as i can't read through the entirety of his posts since i've been here obviously, but please have a look, you will find much more offensive drivel than the quotes i picked out, and these are the posts i've looked at ONLY since i have been here about three months. Quick scan through as well note. I may do a revised edition of this post at a time when i'm not supposed to be cooking.


Like i said this Islamaphobia from JohnDoe goes back to 2003, don't know how long with his other names. I may dig up the first half of his mockings (2003-2004) which were infinately worse. I will only do this if we have to continue having his stench around our forums. This is one of my favourite though....ohh i really do like this one.

As for being held to account for actions in this life by God/Allah/creator? Nah, don't believe in it. No heaven, no hell, probably nothing.

This one will be a shock to the system for the old boy when he gets there. All those beers and pork pies....not good Johnny John.


We'll end it with this...

I hope you do not go away from this thinking I enjoy this, to poke fun at your religion.

This guy is GREAT! Or perhaps, he is an offensive stain on this board the members here have had to stomach for the last however many years, constant mockery, not even looking to learn about Islam, it's all a joke. While good Muslims, and new muslims like myself have to read this rubbish and stomach it. All while he's sittting back, popping on these forums to take the mick out of those Muslims. All while drinking beer, belching and then logging off. Only to do the same tommorow, and <b>every other single day since he's been registered</b>, not counting the times he was banned.


And no one can even come with the old Don't look at his posts. It's kind of hard when the dude is posting 100 times a day non stop in almost every topic that is put up. And why? Has anyone actually thought why? for the last however many years? With no progression on his part toward Islam, or even wanting to find out more...why does he do this? Because this board in it's tolerance continues to accept it. I sometimes think it's one of the mods playing a trick on us...no one can be as dumb and as Ignorant as he appears in his posts, <b>and actually be real??</b> Then again he is Agnostic, which means he is scared of hell, but to embaressed to admit it to Athiest friends...i know this for a fact.


Regardless my trick to try and be nice to him, become a Mod and then switch and kick him off the board has not worked because i can't hide my feelings...D'OH. If i didn't love the Brothers and Sisters here so much i would have been long gone. Regardless, it is kind of fun actually...i'd be lying if i said it wasn't. Only cos i know i get to him, so much so, he "ignores" my posts, yet makes direct references to them. If he notes, it's since he's said this ignoring my posts thing that i've gone into OVERDRIVE...and <b>i'm gonna get worse too over the coming weeks! </b>especially if i have to keep reading this rubbish.


There are new Muslims here everyday, and i know how influenced i was by comments like his, read my early posts. So Insha Allah....i will continue. The IslamMessage forum unofficial <b>Kakir Katcher</b> I'm also on a open PC at work now which means i can keep watch most of the day. All free of charge for my brothers and sisters.


My rice is done so i'm off for now.


To be continued....

[laian]

Wow, anyabwile..........


I have to say your post was more offensive than anything JohnDoe could ever say.


Please don't continue...

[Anyabwile]

Wow, anyabwile..........
I have to say your post was more offensive than anything JohnDoe could ever say.


Please don't continue...

But you would say that because you're not happy with me right now. This is obvious. I'm not agreeing that U.S. soldiers are Soldiers of Justice and your brother is one of them so i expect nothing less from you. Regardless if someone is going to speak about our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) and speak about the lord almighy like this Our God who we as muslims are supposed to Submit ourselves fully to and love more then our own families and anything on the planet. Then i'll be as rude to him as i like....let me guess i'm supposed to care about his feelings here. You're almost as bad as him responding with what you just said in my personal opinion. Maybe it's best we avoid each others posts as much as possible. I will never back down defending my faith...in fact if he continues, i'll get worse. Ban me and him i'm sure we'll both go smiling!


ALLAHU AKBAR.