Can We Use Other Than The Language Of Arabic When

[Anyabwile]

I have a friend who told me that the one who wins a debate is the one who leaves the debate first. 

That doesn't make any sense, the one who stays to the end in my eyes would be the one who "wins" Because they can still stand strong supported by their arguments, where as those who's points for argument get knocked down one by one leave early one by one. No i don't agree with that, unless i understand it wrong.


Anyway i think this whole thing is just a difference of opinion, having a difference of opinion with someone doesn't always mean the exchange is a debate. I still think you should strive to learn Arabic instead of just sitting back and saying i'll leave it to Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala) There is a Hadith and i think it goes like this, correct me if i am wrong anyone:


<i>Prophet Muhammad, (peace and blessings be upon him), noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it. He asked the Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?" The Bedouin answered, "I put my trust in Allah." The Prophet then said, "Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah"</i>


This relates to what you said in your post Shaunee, you said "...I strive harder to be closer to God, and when he wants me to know the language, I'm sure I will be a very good Arabic speaker" instead of leaving Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala) to learn your Arabic for you. Start learning now and then put your trust in Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala). That doesn't mean go and buy 100 Arabic language books, just learn bit by bit. But don't be like the man who left his Camel untied.


Assalamu alaikum

[NewBeginning]

Anyway i think this whole thing is just a difference of opinion, having a difference of opinion with someone doesn't always mean the exchange is a debate. I still think you should strive to learn Arabic instead of just sitting back and saying i'll leave it to Allah (Subhanahu wa ta'ala) There is a Hadith and i think it goes like this, correct me if i am wrong anyone:

I'm not sitting back and saying I'll leave it to Allah, this is where you misunderstand me. What I'm saying is........ if I rush, I'm not getting anywhere. And let me point out that every obligatory prayer I say is in 100% Arabic. It's the compulsary prayers that I do in English, and I do it in English to ASSIST my understanding of the Arabic.


As far as the debate comment, you might want to be careful with that as well, as it was a saying of the prophet(pbuh). (Edit on post.... now that I think about it, it may have been a Sufi but at any rate, it was actually a peace making gesture)
My friend did relay that to me, but he didn't invent the saying. I'm sure I was wrong by not pointing that out initially.


I will do my best to get that hadith to you as soon as possible.

[Anyabwile]

As far as the debate comment, you might want to be careful with that as well, as it was a saying of the prophet(pbuh).

I was prepared for this, note the highlighted text below...

That doesn't make any sense, the one who stays to the end in my eyes would be the one who "wins" Because they can still stand strong supported by their arguments, where as those who's points for argument get knocked down one by one leave early one by one. <b>No i don't agree with that, unless i understand it wrong.</b>

Yes, i was ready for this i thought it may have been a saying of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) as i admit i have heard something similar but never had it confirmed. And i thought you might say it was from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) <b>after</b> i responded to it. It would probably have been more honest to just come out and said that where it was from, or thats where you thought it was from. But regardless, that's why i put my fail safe in which i've highlighted in my quote above. If the Prophet did say this then i simply <b>don't understand</b> the meaning, i need to chew it over and think over it more deeply. If your friend said it from his or her own tongue then i'd stand by what i said, i don't agree with them.


There you go you can win that little one if that's what you're looking to do, but anyway beside that...does not the Hadith i posted relate to you and make sense. Just re read it and decide for yourself, then make the appropriate changes. Doesn't hurt to be humble, i don't understand what you're fighting with me against to be honest. If you don't want to agree with me, read the other posts in this topic which are in agreement with mine, from people with much much much more Islamic knowledge than i could ever have. But now in your latest post your saying you do read the prayer in Arabic...when before my understanding was you don't...so i'm not really sure where you're going. Anyway...


Goodness me i should be saving this debating energy with the loopy Christians i come across at work, not a sister.


Asalaam Shaunee.

[NewBeginning]

Any,


I wasn't looking to fight with ANYONE....... you have been coming off as very abrasive from the very beginning.... and all I have done was try to help you understand where I was coming from, and it all just goes over your head. Now I'm frustrated. I should have left this alone entirely.


And you know what else, I would like to point out that NEITHER ONE OF US are actually in any kind of position to argue one iota anyway. Both of us are wet behind the ears, so instead of you jumping on people, why don't you get a leg to stand on first.


I'm done.

[Anyabwile]

Ooops you didn't read my post again.

And you know what else, I would like to point out that NEITHER ONE OF US are actually in any kind of position to argue one iota anyway.  Both of us are wet behind the ears, so instead of you jumping on people, why don't you get a leg to stand on first.

If you re read my post i actually said...

read the other posts in this topic which are in agreement with mine, <b>from people with much much much more Islamic knowledge than i could ever have. </b>

So what you're actually saying here against me is something i previously said anyway, this forum and my Masjid are where i try to learn every day, the brothers there offer me so much knowledge. But i already said people have <b>much much much</b> more knowledge than i could ever have. So what was the point you're making by trying to throw something at me i myself already stated. Just read the posts before responding please sister.


What i think has happened is you've taken me quoting the hadith and on this occasion possibly being correct as offensive, i don't think you should. Everyday when i pray at work i'm told something new or being corrected on a mistake when i pray with the brothers, a wrong movement or action etc but i take it all as a learning process, not get offended and act in an un Islamic manner toward them because i've been shown an error or opposing opinion from them. However it may still be important to note the posts in agreement with mine, despite any mistakes i may have said in my repsonses here, the more knowledgeable members agreed with my overall point, maybe that is something you could possibly keep in mind if you ever re read this topic?


Maybe my apparent abrasiveness was some kind of response to the sarcasm i received from you in the very first response in this topic, maybe that got my back up but anyway, Insha Allah we can both learn from our mistakes from this and converse better in the future. Insha Allah

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


to my brother and sister. sometimes talking thu typing convey wrong impression. I am sure both of u didnt really mean to get the conversation to this.


And to settle this here is what I know of hadeeth regarding the act of arguing:


Narrated under the authority of Anas Ibn Malek that the Messenger of Allah salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam said: "One who avoids lying - which is false- a palace shall be constructed for him in the outer parts of Jannah, and one who leave arguing while he is on the right side a palace shall be constructed for him in the middle of Jannah and one who adopts good mannerism a palace shall be constructed for him in the high level of Jannah" (reported by Termidhi).


Usually there is a thin line that one must realize when we talk with others, a thin line between wanting to prove we are correct and between just passing the info. Even in making dawa to others, we must be careful, we just throw the seed and go, we dont stand and insist to see the fruit or else we will be looking to attain personal credit.


In all cases if we are doing this for Allah our intention is known to Allah and thus we get the reward.


In another hadeeth


Narrated under the authority of Jaber that the Messenger of Allah salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam :" Dont learn knowledge for the purpose of showing off while talking to scholars, nor to argue with unwise people nor to be able to take the best position (for better understaning to be in the spot of light while in a gathering) in a gathering" 0reported by Ibn Majeh).


there are more hadeeth Insh aAllah will look for them but I think the above two convey the meaning.


At the end we are all Muslims and I am sure the intention is good even if sometimes we sound harsh on each other. It is just out of much concern specially when someone is going thru the same experience. Out of much concern from that person, he/she wants so much the other party to benefit and be able to succeed where the former did. Sometimes I fall into this, when I go thru a certain situation and Allah helps me out doing a certain act or manner, I try to help others by sharing this when they are in the same situation..


Did I make any sense

[Anyabwile]

Yes you did make sence Muslimah. I will use this debate here to see how i can change my approach next time i debate. I always seem to slip into this, the hardest thing is i find it difficult to see where i go wrong, i think it's the as you say trying to prove i'm right and not just arguing for the sake of it. So in doing this i stress my point by re explaining, that comes across rude. Anyway i am sorry Shaunee, next time i will think over my responses, and try and look back through this one and see how it got to where it did. Once again please accept my apoligy.


Asalaam

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Mash a Allah that was a nice response Anya may Allah protect us all against slipping somewhere or the other

[laian]

Assalamu alaikum,


Shaunee, I have a question. You said your obligatory prayers are 100% in Arabic, but your compulsory prayers are in English. When you say compulsory, to me that means the same as obligatory, which are the 5 daily prescribed salaat.


If what you mean by compulsory prayers are the ones where you simply talk to God for personal reasons, which are called du'a, then YES YES YES by all means say those in ENGLISH!!! There is no reason to learn a new language just to talk to God, use your mother language that you understand best, without a doubt.


Also, if I am now understanding you correctly, then you are saying your obligatory, or 5 daily prayers, in Arabic... if that's true, mashaAllah that is wonderful and congratulations I'm very happy for you.


On a side note, Anyabwile, the saying of the one who wins the debate is the one who leaves first, it means if you are in a debate with someone over something that has no right answer, if you can calmly collect yourself and say, "this is going nowhere" and graciously leave the debate without having to feel that you need to WIN and you need to force your opinion on someone else, then yes you have "won" the debate. It doesn't mean that you give up because you are wrong or you have weak arguments, it just means that you recognize the difference of opinion and are mature enough to leave it at that.


hope that helps


and again Shaunee, congratulations, I'm really so happy for you, whether you say your prayers in english or arabic, you have still come such a long way and I know you took a huge step in accepting Islam and inshaAllah may Allah make everything easy for you ameen

[lifutushi]

Assalamu'alaykum....


it's great to discuss and have some debate. just hope that it won't create any grudge between us. Insya Allah. love all of u