Why Convert?

[Muslimah]

Just in case u really need to learn, u know our duty is to help others learn when they seek knowledge.


Go here:


http://islam.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite....ationbrief.html


it is brief but will give u an idea


if u interested to see more let me know, if u feel happy and satisfied the way u r, no prob.

[ronniv93]

Anyabwile,

Ok so compare those minor changes (you have not shown me proof of as I have you) to these changes...

So, when you say “compare these minor changes”, are you saying that you are aware that there are differences? In any case, this is not really the topic of this thread and could make a lot of people upset to mention it. If you want to know <b>one</b> of my sources of information, you can check the book “Ulum Al-Quran”. You can do an internet search and find the text of the whole book online. He has specific sections/chapters where he talks about these differences.

Anyabwile said:
I highlighted what you said in dark letters because it's very important. What i highlighted is denial.

You may highlight what you wish.


For you, you have already (<i>without even knowing me or my background</i>) judged that I am in some sort of state of denial. That is NOT what I said. I specifically told you that I <b>did</b> take the time out to research the claims.


Why didn’t you put in bold the part where I said <b> There's lots of speculation and truth-twisting and sometimes, outright distortions and lies</b>?? THAT should be the part that is highlighted.


Thats why instead of just saying come with us...Muslims will show you facts. Then if you don't want to accept facts, historical facts, then that's denail.


You know, a person could come here and make all kinds of claims and ugly statements about Islam, the Quran, your prophet, etc. and base it all on “historical facts”. Of course, no Muslim would agree with them, NOT because they disputed the HISTORICAL FACTS, but because they INTERPRET and UNDERSTAND history in a different light than a non-Muslim. But I haven’t come here denigrating and insulting you, your religion, your book, or your prophet. Why are attacking me and my faith so much, without even knowing anything about me?

I understand why most christians will never become Muslim, when you're bought up or follow something strongly especially over time it's impossible to change.

I actually find this rather insulting. What you are seeming to say is that I can’t think and make a judgment on my own. What you’re saying is that I am just blindly following the faith of my parents. Well, you know what? You’re dead wrong. MY faith is based upon my personal experience with God and with His Word and with His promises.


Do you know that I actually started studying Islam very seriously, just wanting to know what it was all about? Do you know that I came to a point where I actually thought that maybe everything I believed was wrong? It scared me. I asked myself a question: “If Islam is true and Christianity is false, are you willing to convert?” I said “YES!” Because I seek TRUTH; not to hold onto something that’s familiar to me. I even made up my mind that if I was to convert, I’d go “all the way,” wearing hijab, the whole thing.


<b>BUT</b>, I KEPT seeking and researching AND THEN I began to see how much people will lie about the Bible and Christianity, all in an effort to build Islam up. The supposedly well-respected “leaders” in Islam were even spreading falsities.


<b>How can my rejection of lies be “denial”?</b>

You also avoided my question asking..
I'm not sure why you avoided this but i'll ask again who is right? Also could you clear this other little one up for me...

I avoided it because it had nothing to do with my initial question.


If you just really want an answer, I honestly can’t give you one. You’ve thrown out 2 very different numbers (20 denominations vs. 75) but no specifics on which denominations you’re talking about. How am I supposed to give a specific answer to a vague question?

Your overall response was most dissapointing, you have shown me as a new Muslim nothing at all, except this.  You have no explination because there isn't one,

Well, it wasn’t my goal to impress you. If I “disappoint” you that much, then maybe you and I just shouldn’t dialogue with one another. I’ve barely made any posts at all on this board; I just came here and already you have jumped on my case, made judgments about me with no knowledge OF me, decided <b>FOR ME</b> that I have “no explanation” for the points you brought up, etc.


Is it your right to be so critical and judgmental? I can see if you actually KNEW something about me, but you don’t.


BTW, just FYI. . . . I am a female, not a male. See? You didn’t even know that much.

[ronniv93]

Umm_Zachariah,


I appreciate your post which was very clear and direct.


Your post focuses on the concept that belief in Islam will get me on the path to believing in the Unity of God. You also said that I will then KNOW WHO I worship. So, is it belief in the Unity of God that makes one a Muslim and distinguishes that person from all others?


Honestly, I * do * feel that I know God. He speaks to me, answers my prayers and questions, comforts me when I need it and corrects me when I need that, too. : - )


I’ll consider your post more thoroughly, though.


Another quick question, if you don’t mind, just out of curiosity. I think that Islam and Christianity both believe that people have a spirit. That is the part of you which is eternal. (<i>Correct me if I’m wrong somewhere</i>). I know we both believe that there will be a physical resurrection, one day. But, man has a spirit, right?


<b>And here’s my question:</b> Where do we get our thoughts, feelings, emotions and opinions from? In Islam, are all of your thoughts/memories/etc. part of what happens in your physical brain? Or is it part of your spirit? I hope my question makes some sense to you. If it’s confusing, I’ll try to rephrase my question a little better.

[ronniv93]

Hey Muslimah,


Thanks again for the warm welcome. :-)

I saw people coming back because the concept of confession for example raised inquiries.

I don’t quite understand this statement. Can you please clarify what you meant here by "concept of confession"?

Others were uncomfortable with the trinity, others saw contradictions of the Bible. and more

Hmm… Yes, I know that some people seemingly can’t grasp the idea of a “Trinity”. That’s not really a problem with me. As for the contradictions, I do know what you are referring to. When I first heard about contradictions in the Bible, I couldn’t really explain them at first glance either.


What do you say to people who pose the same objection to the Quran? That there are contradictions? I know I’ve read and heard about them. But, how does Islam resolve these attacks on the Quran?


The most imporant point i d like to clear here, is that QURAN has no differences non what so ever since it was revealed 1400 years ago to Mohamed Salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam. No difference about number of suras. If u r talking about changes like the dots and all. I can refer u to a site to learn about this.


But each word in Quran was, still is, will remain the same till the Day After it was not changed, tampered with.


I will take some time today to go to the site you posted. I don’t think I’ve come across that one in my studies.


Thanks for the info and your help! *smile*

if u interested to see more let me know

Are you sure you want to say that to *me*??? The way I am, I’ll probably start driving you crazy with all my questions.


But, seriously. Thanks for the offer.

[Anyabwile]

You know, a person could come here and make all kinds of claims and ugly statements about Islam, the Quran, your prophet, etc. and base it all on “historical facts”.  Of course, no Muslim would agree with them, NOT because they disputed the HISTORICAL FACTS, but because they INTERPRET and UNDERSTAND history in a different light than a non-Muslim.  But I haven’t come here denigrating and insulting you, your religion, your book, or your prophet.  Why are attacking me and my faith so much, without even knowing anything about me?

Woo big horrible Anya, simply because i ask difficult questions you do not like. If someone asks questions you don't like that doesn't mean they're trying to Insult you or your prophet. I love Jesus (Peace and all blessings from Allah be upon him) and his message just as you do, i just prefer the version of his message that isn't tampered with by man over thousands and thousands of years.

You know, a person could come here and make all kinds of claims and ugly statements about Islam, the Quran, your prophet, etc. and base it all on “historical facts”.  Of course, no Muslim would agree with them, NOT because they disputed the HISTORICAL FACTS, but because they INTERPRET and UNDERSTAND history in a different light than a non-Muslim.

Errrrr wrong. How can you INTERPRET FACTS differently? If you came to me with HISTORICAL FACTS showing me the Quran was corrupted over time, and had many different versions written which Muslims of today didn't know about. I would gladly look into this, because i'd want to test my faith and be sure. If i simply ignored history then that would be denial. History has shown me so far that that's not the case. When you told me about changes in Quran i didnt reply saying NO NO NO. I acknowledged there might be, which is the odd dot in the arabic writing apparently, but not hundreds of different versions of 100's of different stories anyway. Even if there was proof of some dots being different words translated different in some versions (which i havent seen yet) the odd missing dot would not concern me or English to Arabic mistake in translation would not concern me.


However if there was a documented history of different books, versions sects, changings of original books, proof of parties sitting and changing what they do and do not like in the words, and a king changing it as he wishes for his own reasons...and then ending up with 95 different versions of Islam who all thought they were right. And not even following ONE BOOK...which would be easier, but following something changed and something that has many various versions. I wouldn't have become Muslim today. I go to Islam because it's the pure word...simple. One dot added, one English Translation wrong or not. It's not even comparable to the mess of modern Christianity man has made.


Reading Quran in English the translation is lost anyway and all English Qurans acknowledge this, thus they suggest reading the Arabic version. Thats why i'm learning Arabic now, so i can only come back to you on this once i have learnt Arabic or at least know a bit more so i can research it MYSELF...but no denial see? Ok....what else...

“If Islam is true and Christianity is false, are you willing to convert?”  I said “YES!”  Because I seek TRUTH; not to hold onto something that’s familiar to me.  I even made up my mind that if I was to convert, I’d go “all the way,” wearing hijab, the whole thing.

I apoligise for two things here, firstly sorry i don't remember reading that above question. Or i don't remember reading your answer as yes. That's a gross error on my part. I'm sorry again...and i apoligise here too...for assuming you was bought up in a western Christian envioronment, that was an assumption i should have checked first. Sorry again. All i'm saying is i know if i had been bought up Muslim all my life it would be very very hard to accept i was slightly wrong...the same message but slightly wrong about it. That's not patronising, it's the truth, it's how people are, conditioning etc. I came to Islam fresh from nothing...i was athiest, i looked at all religions in the past but was pulled toward Islam, because the message is clear. How a logic thinking athiest could go to Christianity without being totally confused by it i don't actually know. Thus i went to Islam after proving to myself God exists. But it's not insulting to suggest people find it hard to change something that's been with them since birth. I assumed that was the case with you, but i was wrong. May Allah forgive my mistake and forgive me for upsetting you. Never my intention, i know my writing style is like this though. Sorry again.

If you just really want an answer, I honestly can’t give you one.  You’ve thrown out 2 very different numbers (20 denominations vs. 75) but no specifics on which denominations you’re talking about.  How am I supposed to give a specific answer to a vague question?

This here is a shame, you know directly that there are many denominations but you still for the second time refuse to anser the question because it leaves you on shaky ground. Why refuse to answer something you CLEARLY know leaves your religion looking shaky. Isn't that a kind of Denial. You know there are many denominations but you want me to actually list them first before you are willing to co-operate. Plus i did say to you 75 was a number i was recently given by a Muslim so i couldn't confirm that. However i will ask again then, for example, out of these specific different followers of Christ, who is right. This was taken from a western website by the way, no affiliation with lslam at all. I admit i havent researched it fully myself but just a peek below would throw someone off, where do you go to learn of Christ and if you could answer my question now please, the one i ask for a third time, who is right?:


Denominations & Sects


Below is an alphabetical list of "official" denominations and sects of Christianity. Some are larger, some are smaller, and some don't really exist any more - but all have played a role in defining the course of Christian traditions.


Amish


Anabaptism


Assemblies of God


Baptists


Calvinism


Christadelphians


Christian Identity


Church Universal and Triumphant


Church of Christ


Church of England


Congregationalism


Coptic Christianity


Eastern Orthodox


Episcopal Church


Ethiopian Christianity


IURD


Jehovah's Witnesses


Lutheran Church


Maronites


Mennonites


Methodism


Old Catholic Movement


Pentecostal Church


People's Temple


Pilgrims


Presbyterian Church


Protestant


Puritanism


Quakers


Roman Catholicism


Shakers


Spiritual Baptists


Thomas Christians


Unification Church


Unitarianism


United Church of Christ


Unitarian Universalist


Church Groups & Movements


Below is a list of "official" movements and groups which can be found in various Christian churches and traditions. They do not qualify as independent churches or sects - instead, <b>they have helped define those churches and sects. </b>


Acoemetae


Adelophagi


Adventist Movement


amillennialism


Arminian Theology


Augustinians


Benedictines


Cahenslyism


Capuchins


Carmelites


dispensationalism


Dominicans


Evangelicalism


Franciscans


fundamentalism


Gnosticism


Huguenots


Hutterites


Liberation Theology


Mainline Protestant


Mendicant Orders


Neo-Orthodoxy


Pietism


postmillennialism


Primitivism


Quietism


Sabbatarianism


staret


premillennialism


Scholasticism


Thomism


Transcendentalism


Trinitarianism


Universalism





Heretical Movements


Below is a list of movements and ideologies which have been declared "heretical" in Christian tradition. These groups either <b>challenged orthodox beliefs or their existence caused more official groups to define what those orthodox beliefs should actually be</b>. <b>Sometimes, heretical groups play a larger role in defining orthodoxy than orthodox groups do. </b>


Adamites


adoptionism


Albigenses


antinomianism


Apollinarianism


Arianism


Cathars


Docetism


Donatism


Ebionites


Jansenism


Lapsed Christians


Lollards


Manicheism


monophysite


Montanism


Nestorianism


Pelagianism


Waldenses





Non-Church Movements


Below is a list of groups and movements which are not actual sects or denominations and which are <b>not officially a part of any church, but nevertheless have associated themselves with Christianity in one way or another [thus bringing an independant message]</b>.


Freemasonry


Rosicrucianism


Salvation Army


--------------------


So it seems the number is MORE than i originally though. It's almost 95 not 25 or 75. Thank you for making me do my own little breif research on this. And these are NOT people following the same book but picking bits out of it, there are all people actually following a changed book or books over time. Changed many many time by man, the original message of Jesus (Peace and Gods blessings be upon him) is hidden somewhere between this mess way back in time...that's really ugly to me.


So now where do i go as someone who wishes to follow the word of God. And i'm sure we all agree Jesus and the other prophets did bring the word of God. But where do i go? I choose from between 95 or so different sects, movements and groups who each have their own way of thinking. How much this way of thinking differs is irrelevant, they each have a slightly different way to the next person, or they wouldnt be titled different. And again, this different way is based on corrupted texts and books by man throughout time from the prophet Jesus's (Peace be upon him) first message. Do you sift through all these and choose one (for which you could be wrong)...or....do you follow the book of God that has cleaned up this mess man has made in his arrogance. Which acknowledges the past prophets and is even predicted in some of the original oldest books of Christianity? How could Gods word exist in the state it has gotten to in Chrisitanity, there would need to be a seal to all of this. See where i'm going here.

Is it your right to be so  critical and judgmental? I can see if you actually KNEW something about me, but you don’t.  BTW, just FYI. . . . I am a female, not a male.  See?  You didn’t even know that much.

That put a smile on my face...that was corny. No need to mention that at all. I don't care if you're a man or a woman. I'm not here looking for love, i'm just here to speak with Humans. Plus you're not my type! Serious tho, what sex you are is irrelevant AM i supposed to try and go easy on you because of this?? I know my questions come across hard, which is why you thank Muslimah and Umm for not challenging you so directly i imagine. They can word things much better than me as you can see, so forgive me. But i don't know you as you say, so i simply seek facts. I wouldnt insult you just because you're Christian i know some Muslims disagree with me but i already see you as a cousin and love you. As Allah would wish me to do.


Also could you answer the Jesus/Swine and Jesus Praying questions i posed to you please. This is a genuine question i'd liek answered form a christian perspective, no horrible intent. I actually wish to know this...I apoligise for being so cold and hard with my responses but it's how i've always been. I think sceintifically about a lot of things and it makes me sometimes seem cold hearted i guess. I've thought scientifically in this sometimes analytical way before and after i found Islam because as the Noble Quran tells us..."there is no compulsion in religion"


God bless you.

[umm Zachariah]

Salam Ronniv93,


I will try to answer your questions.


''So, is it belief in the Unity of God that makes one a Muslim and distinguishes that person from all others?''


It is certainly a good start The other 'part' that distinguish a Muslim from others is to also believe in the last prophet sent by Allah, SWT, the Prophet Muhammad, SAWS. I am aware that you already know that, since I read through your other posts here, but I write it anyway, just to be clear enough. So there is TWO good beginnings for a Muslim. The rest is then to 'live up' to being a Muslim and that is to submit to Allah, SWT, and follow His will.


''Honestly, I * do * feel that I know God.''


This was not a question, but I just felt like commenting anyway if you don't mind. Yes, I believe that a lot of people that are not Muslims feel God, no doubt about that. But to me, there is a difference between feeling God and being aware of Him. Awareness brings one closer to Him, one verse in the Qur'an tells us in 50:16 ''It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.'' and that opens eyes and ears and senses in a much deeper way than before. I sometimes compare this 'picture' of the awareness of our Creator with a puzzle. When you feel Him you have a beautiful puzzle, maybe showing a breathtaking sunrise, and almost every piece is in its place, just some of them are yet to be put in place. And when the awareness of the Creator is planted into ones heart and soul, suddenly all pieces fits in. And the puzzle is completed and done. So the complete understanding and awareness of our Creator is much the same, like a finished puzzle.


About the spirit. One could also say the spirit and the soul. It is not such an easy subject. Can I recommend you to read the following web-sites, that explains it much better than I can do?


The Nature and Essence of the Human Soul http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsecti...hp?articleid=51


and The Nafs (Soul) and the Rûh (Spirit) http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsecti...hp?articleid=52


Hope they will be helpful.


Regards

[Anyabwile]

I sometimes compare this 'picture' of the awareness of our Creator with a puzzle. When you feel Him you have a beautiful puzzle, maybe showing a breathtaking sunrise, and almost every piece is in its place, just some of them are yet to be put in place. And when the awareness of the Creator is planted into ones heart and soul, suddenly all pieces fits in. And the puzzle is completed and done. So the complete understanding and awareness of our Creator is much the same, like a finished puzzle.

I wish i could be as Eloquent with words and descriptions like the above you wrote Umm. It was beautiful. Instead i kind of stumble in 100mph full steam. Hmm guess it's just me. I can't word my debates in any other way. Anyway what you wrote touched me, it's so true. All the pieces fitting.

[radiyah]

ronniv93, I would like to welcome u here, and I hope that u will like your stay, and don't go, u don't have to revert to stay as sister Muslimah said , so welcome and keep asking and by Will of Allah we will answer what we know

I don’t quite understand this statement. Can you please clarify what you meant here by "concept of confession"?

As I know that christians go to the priest to confess of sins that they've done, the priest will take a sum of money, and then he will tell that confessing person finish your sins are forgivin. right or not?


In Islam, we do not go to priests, our relation is totaly between us and Allah(GOD), we confess to Him we seek aid in Him, we ask His Forgivness, we Worship non but Him, one God ronni not 3.


In Islam, there is self respect to a human being, self respect to his brains, forgive me, I am not accusing u of anything, but the right intelctual thinking will lead me where? Imagine a house with 2 fathers, or a car with 2 drivers, or a ship or plain with 2 captains


or a country with 2 leaders, then they will fight together who will lead and who is best and who is better, then there will be chaos killing and destruction everywhere. Then Imagine what will happen to the universe if there is more than one GOD, will it be stable, will it still run smoothly and so systimatically, no it won't . Now let us forget about bible being corrupted or what u r saying about the Quran, we will come to that later, just think on what I said before, we submit only to Allah, we confess only to Him, we cry only to Him, we ask only His forgivness, and our scholars do not seek worldly gains or ask for money or even ask us to confess to them, because they know that they do not dare give themselves that right, it is only He Allah The One God Who Has the right to forgive, because he is our Creator, our souls are in His Hand, and not in the hand of a mere human being, who is a pope, to give himself the right that my sins are forgiven and that he has the key for me to enter the heavens. No 1 has that right except he one who created u and me ronni, and that is Allah.


I know I repeated myself, but this is the begining that must be stressed on, God's onness.


And ronni beleive me the Quran never changed, when u want to know if it changed u ask us arab muslims, and about ulum Al-quran, u must understand what it is before u read it especially if that science is translated in english, sometimes things might not be clear to u because u do not understand the concept of that science, so why don't u start again with us bit by bit, ask ur questions and we will answer by will of Allah.


and sorry for my long post


take care ronni and welcome again to the board and enjoy your stay


Peace

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum brother,


We are ALL here to learn, and learning takes time, usually a lifetime I guess. Believe me or not but my Sabr, patience, is not so good always. It is something I have to work hard with, constantly, with the help of Allah, SWT, inshaAllah. Ramadaan is a great opportunity to work on this even better. MashaAllah.


If you are 'steaming' now, inshaAllah you will eventually slow down. You are eager and don't forget still a 'baby' and not only you but we all make mistakes, it is just us, I suppose. We are humans. You will come around brother, give it time, and take Ramadaan as Allah's, SWT, gift to you to reflect and take some 'time out' and read the Qur'an a lot. And pray a lot. The first Ramadaan will surely stay in memory for some time to come, inshaAllah.


Wasalam your sister

[radiyah]

Assalamu aleikum brother,
We are ALL here to learn, and learning takes time, usually a lifetime I guess. Believe me or not but my Sabr, patience, is not so good always. It is something I have to work hard with, constantly, with the help of Allah, SWT, inshaAllah. Ramadaan is a great opportunity to work on this even better. MashaAllah.


If you are 'steaming' now, inshaAllah you will eventually slow down. You are eager and don't forget still a 'baby' and not only you but we all make mistakes, it is just us, I suppose. We are humans. You will come around brother, give it time, and take Ramadaan as Allah's, SWT, gift to you to reflect and take some 'time out' and read the Qur'an a lot. And pray a lot. The first Ramadaan will surely stay in memory for some time to come, inshaAllah.


Wasalam your sister

Alsalam 'alaykom


Jazzaky Allah khayr Umm, really a wonderful advice. may ramadan be the purifier of all our sins by Allah's Will:)


waslam