Pope Benedict on Islam

[reepicheep]

wel_mel_2 wrote:


> Expected comments from you.


Tell us what you think the term "Papal Infallibility" means.

[AlShamms]

Peace....


LOL, I'd be interested in reading that post.


Shamms

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Ooo Wael, jazakum Allah khairan for this correction, preacher. I know I was impressed with his story. The fact that he prostrated and made dua to Allah.


Shamms, ok now I know u dont ascribe yourself to any sect. So how do u perform worship?

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

wel_mel_2 wrote:


> Expected comments from you.


Tell us what you think the term "Papal Infallibility" means.

It is enough for me that you know what is the meaning reep.. you are not ignorant... NOT AT ALL. <_<


Salam


Wael

[AlShamms]

Bismillah


Ooo Wael, jazakum Allah khairan for this correction, preacher. I know I was impressed with his story. The fact that he prostrated and made dua to Allah.


Shamms, ok now I know u dont ascribe yourself to any sect. So how do u perform worship?

Peace.....


Muslimah, I worship the way Christ ascribed his followers to worship:


(Matthew 6:1) Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.



(Matthew 6:2) Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.



(Matthew 6:3) But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:



(Matthew 6:4) That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.



(Matthew 6:5) And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.



(Matthew 6:6) But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.



(Matthew 6:7) But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.



(Matthew 6:8) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.



(Matthew 6:9) <b>After this manner therefore pray ye:</b> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.



(Matthew 6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.



(Matthew 6:11) Give us this day our daily bread.



(Matthew 6:12) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.



(Matthew 6:13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.



(Matthew 6:16) Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.



(Matthew 6:17) But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;



(Matthew 6:18) That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.



I hope this answers your question.


Shamms

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Peace.....


Muslimah, I worship the way Christ ascribed his followers to worship:


(Matthew 6:1) Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.



(Matthew 6:2) Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.



(Matthew 6:3) But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:



(Matthew 6:4) That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.



(Matthew 6:5) And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.



(Matthew 6:6) But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.



(Matthew 6:7) But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.



(Matthew 6:8) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.



(Matthew 6:9) <b>After this manner therefore pray ye:</b> Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.



(Matthew 6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.



(Matthew 6:11) Give us this day our daily bread.



(Matthew 6:12) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.



(Matthew 6:13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.



(Matthew 6:16) Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.



(Matthew 6:17) But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;



(Matthew 6:18) That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.



I hope this answers your question.


Shamms

so in the above verses that you have quoted, Did Jesus tell you to worship him?


salam


Wael

[John 15:18]

Bismillah:


I guess Shamms said before that he/she is an orthodox Christian.


And by the way sister, just little correction from your little brother :) .. Yusuf Estes was a Protestant Preacher, not a priest, because this term used only in the Catholic Church. but i do agree, that he was very active in preaching Christianity, he even hated Muslims and Islam, and yet he accepted Islam under no compulsion, and not only him who embraced Islam, but his wife, his father, daughters, and many of his family members. <b>so where is this invisible sword that we cannot see</b>????


Salam


Wael.

Re: the invisible sword that we cannot see: From "Islam Question and Answer" a website by Muslims, for Muslims:


The fact that the sword and power were means of spreading Islam is not a sources of shame for Islam, <b>rather it is one of its strengths and virtues</b>, because that makes people adhere to that which will benefit them in this world and in the Hereafter. Many people are foolish and lacking in wisdom and knowledge, and if they are left to their own devices they will remain blinded to the truth, indulging in their whims and desires. So Allaah has prescribed jihad in order to bring them back to the truth and to that which will benefit them. Undoubtedly wisdom dictates that the fool should be prevented from doing that which will harm him, and <b>should be forced to do that which will benefit him</b>.


http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=43087&ln=eng


That pretty much clears that one up right there, hey? If you're going to tell me that these are bad Muslims, fine, but this is what they're saying. That Islam was spread by the sword, and it was a good idea, and necessary. Not shy. I'm not saying that everyone who converted did so under duress, but they're making it clear on at least that website that some people were ("the fool"), and that it was a nifty idea. Note that this has no time limit on it. This is not a past event, lodged in history to never be repeated. This is doctrine that still bears a present-day weight to it.


"But when there is a divine system and law, and alongside it there are human systems and laws, then the matter is fundamentally different, and the divine law <b>has the right to remove the barriers and free people from enslavement to human beings</b>"


If this is wrong, contact the staff over at Islam Question and Answer, and advise them of their error. If not, then the quote that Pope Benedict used had some basis in reality.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

If you're going to tell me that these are bad Muslims,

No am not going to say that they are bad, but I can loudly say that they are wrong… The Muslims never forced anyone to accept Islam, after the conquest of Mecca, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh addressed its people saying <b>"GO YOU ARE FREE"</b>, and he did not force anyone to accept Islam although he had the power to do so, but he can never do such thing because he is under the command of his Lord that “Let him who will believe and let him who will reject (it)
Qur’an 18:129 and also “will you then compel mankind against their will to believe?
Qur’an 10:99, and “if they turn away, We have not sent you as a guard over them, your duty is to convey (the message)
Qur’an 42:48


So as you can see the Qur’an clearly prohibits forcing anyone to follow the faith of Islam and the <b>Prophet Muhammad pbuh and his companions were the best who followed the teaching of the Qur’an.</b>


Also, the Muslims never forced a Jew or a Christian to embrace Islam, Omar Ibn Al Khattab, the second caliph of Islam, assured the people of Jerusalem that <b>their lives, their churches, and their crosses would not be harmed on account of his faith. </b>


The webstie you have posted is an Islamic, I do agree, but I don’t agree with their view at all, and most Muslims will never agree. To get this picture right, listen to what Non Muslims said about this topic, <b>honest Non Muslims who have no reason to lie.</b>


<b>Sigrid Hunke</b> said in her book Allah is completely different?

“The tolerance of the Arabs played an important role in the spreading of Islam, contrary to what has been falsely claimed that it was spread by fire and the sword, which is an unjust and unverified accusation against Islam”

She also said in the same book that

“Jews, Sabians, and Pagans embraced Islam of their own free will”

It is well known fact that Muslims armies never invaded South Asia or West Africa, yet Islam spread and flourished in these countries after Muslims merchants traveled with their merchandise to these countries.


So spreading Islam at the point of the sword is <b>the most absurd myth that ignorant and the enemy of Islam have ever repeated.</b>


Salam


Wael.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


I invited everyone on this thread to read the full text of the speach. I think Insh a Allah i will post the part I need to emphasis.

[John 15:18]

Bismillah:


No am not going to say that they are bad, but I can loudly say that they are wrong…


The webstie you have posted is an Islamic, I do agree, but I don’t agree with their view at all, and most Muslims will never agree. To get this picture right, listen to what Non Muslims said about this topic, <b>honest Non Muslims who have no reason to lie.</b>


<b>Sigrid Hunke</b> said in her book Allah is completely different?


She also said in the same book that


It is well known fact that Muslims armies never invaded South Asia or West Africa, yet Islam spread and flourished in these countries after Muslims merchants traveled with their merchandise to these countries.


So spreading Islam at the point of the sword is <b>the most absurd myth that ignorant and the enemy of Islam have ever repeated.</b>


Salam


Wael.

Very good. We are agreed in the following things:


1 - That website was islamic.


2 - You disagree with the information in there.


3 - The religion of Islam does not have a structure in which your disagreement carries any weight whatsoever.


The quote you have above says that it is the most absurd myth that ignorant enemies of Islam have ever repeated. Well, according to that quote above, and the information I retrieved, it would appear that the good people of Islam Question and Answer are "enemies of Islam". I wonder, do they know this? Are they aware that they are enemies of the faith that they claim to represent?


Following your logic, they are both Islamic, and enemies of Islam. Which is it? Bear in mind, I am bringing to the table only what the global Muslim community has told me. Like it or not, Islam Question and Answer's page contains way more Hadith/Qu'ran quotes than your disagreement. If I was to look online for Islamic information, and found their site, why should I not think that it's right? If Islam is being mis-represented, by "enemies of Islam", how to check that. Non-Muslims have a sour view of Muslims precisely from what they hear from Muslims. And you have no way to ensure that such a message is not being spread.