Another Question From Your New Muslim Brother

[Anyabwile]

I don't understand what i'm supposed to get from the above, can someone explain it for me please. What's the point being made. And what's it's relevance to the topic? Apologies.

[Muslimah]

u r right Anya but I can not answer for AbuMubarak. let us wait for him to answer other wise INsh aAllah I will move it to Ramadan forum as being very relevant

[AbuMubarak]

many times, muslims tend to forget the high position Allah has placed the muslims


for new muslims, its imperative for them to know the blessed state they are in


even something such as ramadan is further blessings for the muslim


i placed this here as a reminder for the old and new muslims, that never should they forget the blessed state of being of those who recognize the oneness of Allah


we all seem to forget, and during this upcoming ramadan, it should be noteworthy for us all as we endure the trials of fasting that we once again remind ourselves of why we are going thru such tribulations


by all means, if its more appropriate, move this to the ramadan section, if you feel that is best


أنا تحت امرك

[Muslimah]

that is why I said I will wait for your reply, I knew u had a point which is actually well put Mash a Allah. True AbuMubarak true.


I can even build on that, I m in contact with a revert here in Egypt who was passing tough tests. All I was able to tell her, just think about how Allah brought u from darkness to light, allowed u to worship Him alone, while others may spend their whole life searching and not even come to it. Or they might see the light but not take it. Much blessing, but u must recognize it. Alhamdulelah for being Muslims which suffice as a blessing


I think we will leave it here with the explanation

[Muslimah]

According to Mohammed, the punishment for committing adultery is different between a free man, a free woman and a slave-woman. The man is to be flogged one-hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. The free woman must be stoned to death. But the slave-woman <b>(since she has a monetary value) </b>
will not be exiled or killed, she is to be flogged one-hundred stripes. If the violation is repeated, the slave-woman is to be sold.(Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 8:821 & 822)


top


<b>Islam is a religion, whose sacred Scriptures contain explicit denigrating remarks about Black people.</b>
<b>Mohammed referred to Blacks as "raisin heads</b>
". (Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256).


Bismillah


Praise be to Allah Lord of the Worlds the All Knowing, Musa (Moses)] said: "O my Lord! Open for me my chest (grant me self-confidence, contentment, and boldness), And ease my task for me; And make loose the knot (the defect) from my tongue, (i.e. remove the incorrectness from my speech) [That occurred as a result of a brand of fire which Musa (Moses) put in his mouth when he was an infant] and prayer and peace be upon our teacher, leader and beloved Messenger Mohamed Ibn Abdullah, his household and companions.


as salam alykom brothers and sisters


Looking back at this thread I observed that all of us who replied here, including myself, just made general replies bringing examples of respected slaves in Islam or how Islam looks equally at everyone.


But none of us physically touched on the main point brought here by Anya which is how far is this is true.


As for the 2nd point made thru the hadeeth saying:


SAHIH BUKHARI BOOK 11


Volume 1, Book 11, Number 662:


Narrated Anas:


The Prophet said, "Listen and obey (your chief) even if an Ethiopian whose head is like a raisin were made your chief."


I will start tackling this point Insh a Allah. I had already prepared a reply, including that this is a hadeeth saheeh (authentic) in which I explained the meaning of the hadeeth and why it was said so. Then I sort of lost the reply couldnt find it. Not that I can not re prepare it, since I do remember it well Alhamdulelah. But I felt that this is a sign from Allah to not to post this one.


I felt that why would I apologize because the Messenger used a description? how people can take this as an offense when many, not only many black people embraced, still embrace and will embrace Islam? didnt all of them feel offended before they come to the fold?


Well I felt that I dont want to apologize for this or any other issue raised against Islam. We must be sure that the Messenger salla Allah A`lyhee wa sallam is the one who taught us good manners and how to be kind and respectful to all, he never became angry to any of his slaves under any circumstances. So how can we take his words as an insult to any race or person? how can we accuse him of being rude in a more direct sense? No sorry he is not rude, he is the kindest person ever lived on earth.


As for the other part of enforcing a lesser amount of punishment for zina on slaves, how can this be twisted and taken as Allah looking down at them? Why didnt the one who twisted this ignored the lesser punishment enforced on the unmarried male or female?


Isnt it enough for the slave that he/she was enslaved to mankind by mankind when he/she is supposed to be only enslaved to Allah? how can people didnt see that Allah Took this much in consideration while legislating the rules here? Allah Didnt Command for slavery, but it is rather mankind who invented it for many reasons. To Allah it is enough for a slave to feel enslaved. Allah Shall not burden him/her with the same amount of punishment in case of zina not out of a demeaning sense but out of full mercy.


la hawla wala qowata ila billah.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Still on the first point related to the hadeeth narrated on the issue of obeying the chief.


When one questions the language style here, as if u r questioning the manners of the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam who was described in Quran by Allah Sobhanhu wa Ta`la saying:


"And verily, you (O Muhammad ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ) are on an exalted standard of character
." (Quran 68:4)


We can actually translate the original Arabic words into: you enjoy excellent manners and moral.


And in another Ayah Allah Described him as:


"Verily, there has come unto you a Messenger (Muhammad ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ) from amongst yourselves (i.e. whom you know well). It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty. He (Muhammad ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ) is anxious over you (to be rightly guided, to repent to Allah, and beg Him to pardon and forgive your sins, in order that you may enter Paradise and be saved from the punishment of the Hell-fire), for the believers (he (ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ) is) full of pity, kind, and merciful." (Quran 9:128)


one who is described by Allah Sobhanuh wa Ta`la as such, how can we doubt his sayings taking them with an irrespectable implications.


First off Alhamdulelah we are Muslims, blessed by being Muslims who worship only Allah the One True Deity Worthy to be worshiped.


And I will quote my brother Dan here, if one can not understand the motives behind a hadeeth, it is not due to the wrongness of the hadeeth, but rather the incompetence of our knowledge.


May Allah Enlighten our hearts and insight to see the truth always and appreciate the multiple bounties.

[Anyabwile]

Volume 1, Book 11, Number 662:


Narrated Anas:


1. The Prophet said, "Listen and obey (your chief) even if an Ethiopian whose head is like a raisin were made your chief."


I felt that why would I apologize because the Messenger used a description? how people can take this as an offense when many, not only many black people embraced, still embrace and will embrace Islam? didnt all of them feel offended before they come to the fold?

Well i can't speak for other Black Muslims but i was told by Imams and other Muslims the raisin thing isn't true, and wherever i've seen that Hadith quoted above regarding the Etheopian cheif, the "raisin head" reference is left out. As i said i've seen that Hadith in many many books and websites, but never with the rasin head reference, it's only when i read through the Hadith for myself i came across this and other distrubing things.


So in response to you sister a lot of new Black Muslim <b>don't </b>know about the raisin head comment. Because the hadiths are changed when written in books we are given. Why change the Hadiths? The only person who doesn't see this comment as offensive i've met so far is you, all other Muslim who've quoted the hadith always seem to cut the raisin heads bit out. Why?


However i do think it is best the way it is hidden, or sidestepped as it was when i originally posted the question. Because otherwise it would make a lot of black people feel very uncomfortable, possibly even turn them away from Islam. Race is very important to some of us of African descent, not all, some wouldnt care about being called a raisin head, but i'm not one of them.


Also...


2. Ishaq:243 “I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks
…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s
.’”


3. Tabari II:21 “Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham’s descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem’s, the latter would enslave them
.”


4. Ishaq:405 “It is your folly to fight the Apostle, for Allah’s army is bound to disgrace you. We brought them to the pit. Hell was their meeting place. We collected them there, black slaves, men of no descent.


5. Bukhari:V4B52N137 “The Prophet said, ‘Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him.... If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.’”


This isn't the Islam i've been showed or known, im only recently digging this stuff up so all of the above is untrue right? This is the religion i was hoping to bring my Raisin head daughter up in. This is stuff i'm still looking into some of the above, but hopefully i will get a honest answer straight up first time around, instead of waiting six months to be deeply hurt knowing i and my daughter are both Raisin Heads, who's intercession will be denied to get into paradise.


I admit two of the above Hadith were given to me by non Muslims, but then so was the raisin head one and that turned out to be true so...


Also i always liked the story of how Abu Bakr saved Bilal from the torture but i never knew he replaced him with another poor Black slave, is this true?


6. Ishaq:144 “A rock was put on a slave’s chest. When Abu Bakr complained, they said, ‘You are the one who corrupted him, so save him from his plight.’ I will do so,’ said Bakr. ‘I have a black slave, tougher and stronger than Bilal, who is a heathen. I will exchange him. The transaction was carried out.”


Sorry Muslimah i would have PM'd you but i thought the comment about "if its offensive why aren't black people complaining" you posted here had to be adressed, most are not told, and as i said, the Hadiths quoted in books or leaflets with the raisin head comment in, are all edited. ive read over 100 books on Islams, all good ones, and i've seen that quote many times. I think, it was The Prophets last speech? One of the times he said it, it was from his last speech, so it's been quoted a lot in Islamic Literature. But never with the Raisin head bit? Why?


And then of course there's Satan being a black man etc, please help.


Salam

[umm Zachariah]

Bismillah,


Assalamu aleikum brother,


It is so nice to see you again, but so sad to read your lines.


I know sister Muslimah will surely come to help, but I just wonder one thing, if you don't mind me asking.


The ahadith that you refer to, I read in first hand what is available on the net, and what I can see there are ahadith that contains this word raisin. My question is, how is this word 'conneted' to black people? I do not understand the connection. When I read the hadith, the same as sister Muslimah refers to, I cannot understand what is discriminating in it. I understand it as a person refered to that may no be so beautiful, since his head, not his body, but his head looks like a raisin.


A raisin is not equaly round and smooth, it is dent (if that is the right word). And furthermore, where I live, I have only seen raisins in a very light yellow or golden color. But of course I know there are darker ones too. But I do not see the connection to black people. This is confusing to me.


Wasalam

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom brother Anya


Umm Jazaki Allah khairan for your Mash a Allah well put reply.


Brother Anya I checked the arabic verision and it states exactly as I copied it and pasted. I can not answer for trasnlations spread around the net, this is almost impossible.


and I am not talking out of no experience I met so many black Muslims who btw way know Arabic very well as well and refer to hadeeth in Arabic. Of them for example public figures like Imam Siraj Wahaj, Bilal Philips abu ameena who have been Muslims for more thatn 20 years. Bilal actualy knows Arabic may be better than me, he is a University professor. U might like to contact him.


Brother Anya no need to apologize for posting in public, I did post in public. There is no problem expressing yourself.


since your post is a long and full of points Insh a Allah let us take one by


But u have to help me somehow here, since when i need to check something I only refer to the Arabic then translate the outcome.


what is Ishaq is this a book of hadeeth that I might no of. pls help


O and Anya do me a favor, pls give me the web sites u got specially the ishaq and tabari part from.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


O BTW AbuMubarak who posted 3 posts before this one, is an African american Muslim for more than 20 years who knows Arabic Mash aAllah just like I do. He can read Quran and hadeeth in Arabic Mash aAllah so are his family members.