Ask a Shia

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom Karbala


As I said before, I respect your approach specially for not following scholars blindly. I know u asked me why the Ayah shouldnt mean being infallible.


However, what I want to emphasis first, is that if u follow the sequence of Ayahs that start by addressing a certain issue involving slolely the wives of the Prophet salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam which we call as Ayahtul takheyeer (giving the choice), it is totally illogical to end the squence of Ayahs with a part of Ayah that does not include them..


No the only ma'sooms recognised by Shia are the 14 Ma'soom including the Prophet, Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain and the 9 Imams from the lineage of Hussain. These are the only people who can be called AhlulBayt of the Prophet(saw).



Sobhan Allah, but as I told u i m sure u r quite aware that there are many living among us who are Ashraf or Sada, Ashraf are from the lineage of the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam who must observe the rule of not accepting sadaqa as u know. But then if they are from Ahul Bayt, why only the Imams are Ma``soum???

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


Again the marathon, Karbala, this whole surah (Ahzab) is of a series of units that are all interconnected to each other, just as Quran is one whole unit that compliments each other.


If u look at the theme of the surah from beginning, it deals mainly with the Messenger's - salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam wa a`la all other Prophets and Messengers best prayers and peace - marriages. It inlcuded legislations regarding Zihar, children adoption, then moved to establishing the rule of the Messenger's wives as mothers of believers (thus they cannt marry after him), in this point, Allah Inserts the story of Ahzab battle. After the story ended, Allah again Takes us back to the wives issues telling the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam how to handle their demands. The sequence of Ayahs here were to give them a choice, explain to them they are different even in terms of punishment, how to talk to men, how to dress up (them in particular because later on this Surah Allah Addresses them and women of the belivers), then commanding them to establish salat, and give zakat, obey Allah and the Messenger and the command was to them in particular since Allah was originally talking to them telling them to stay home and not to dress up in improper manner like the time of Jaheliyah, pls be reminded that all this sequence of Ayahs are a direct address to the wives, and then ending with obey Allah and the Messenger and when Allah Is commanding u to do this, it is because (inma which is causing all this confusion) Allah wills to take away sins you members of the household and purify u. Allah Is telling them that Allah Is commanding all this because He is Intending the best for them. How can u expect that this logical sequence may involve a sudden move in the meaning, minding u that the following Ayahs continues talking to them reminding them of what is been recited in your houses, the word in Arabic is the plural of house but talking to women only putting the plural of house (bayt) into the plural form addressing females (beyotekun), how then u would say that the preceding Ayah was not addressed to them. You dont need no scholar, u need to use logic here.


The Ayahs continue then establishing other rules in general, to take us to an important climax of marrying off the Messenger to Zainab who used to tell other wives how Allah Married her in Quran unlike them whome were married thru their walys. Then again on the same theme of the Messenger's marriages to continue how Allah Made lawful to him his cousings...etc, and then making a very important rule that he is not allowed any more wives after those who are with him, then again manners of coming into his house during the walimah, to come to another essential rule that is restricted only to the wives that is they are not supposed to talk to men except from behind a veil because this is Athar (more pure) to their hearts and other men heart. Can u see, that it is totally illogical to say that


يذهب عنكم الرجس


which is not even an Ayah on its own but part of an Ayah preceeded and succeeded with Ayah dealing with, involving, addressing the wives that they are not included. More to say brother, this Ayah does not classify those who are included - whoever they are - as Ma`soum. Brother, as Hadji said, the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam himself was disciplined in Quran in many positions. I m sure u r aware of them, one of them is for instance Quran 66:1, others like Abas, and in Kahf...He also slept once and didnt wake up for Fajr, he also forgot while praying Asr how many Raka`s he did. All this is to teach us how to handle such situations. Again I m still waiting for the answer about the exception of Ma`soum.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


True getting into marathon, just wanted to clarify a point since it involves our beloved Messenger, leader and teacher Mohamed salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam. He never committed a sin, mistakes yes, to prove his humanity and teach us how to handle those mistakes when they occur.


May be I can actually clarify my question, those 9 Imams from the lineage of Hussain
who are recognised Ma`soum along just like the Messenger, Ali, Fatima and their sons, they too had children who as I told u are accounted of Alulbayt and thus are not eligible for Sadaqa. How do u recognise between those 9 Imams and their descendants? In other words, how do u perceive their children?

[umm Zachariah]

Bismillah


Asslamau alaikum


I read something here earlier today and now I cannot find it. So just have to take it from memory.


And that is why is it only Fatima (ra) of the prophet's sallallahu alaihi wa sallam children that is considered to be worthy to be among the people of the Bayt? How come? What about the other daughters?

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom Umm


Go to post #104

[umm Zachariah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom Umm


Go to post #104

Bismillah


Wa alaikum assalam sister,


I looked at that post but it mentions the wives...maybe I need glasses? :conf06:


What I have running round in my mind is how come not all the daughters are among the people of the Bayt? :unsure:

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Umm sorry look up #104 onward, it is based on a hadeeth called hadeethul Kisaa:


Sahih Muslim


Book 31, Number 5955:


'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped hitn under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)


http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/031_smt.html


The hadith clearly mentions that only Ali, Hussain, Hassan and Fatima are part of AhlulBayt along with the Prophet even mentioning the verse of the Quran in question.


Sunan Tirmidhi


The verse "Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)" was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O' Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification." Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?" the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."

[umm Zachariah]

Bismillah


Wa alaikum assalam dear sister and thanks. :)


I must be truly hardheaded today - should the interpretation be that the prophets other daughters are looked upon as being unpure and filled with impurity? And are not worthy to be part of the Bayt - according to the Shia view? :conf06:

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Umm u and I have to wait for Karbala to come back. However, just to further explain my point Karbla, what makes this anticipated Imam who must be one of the modern age, who might have brothers and father, grandfather, sons ..etc this particular one a Masòum unlike the rest of his own household leave alone the rest of those who come from the lineage of the Messener salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam. Sometimes, it takes me a while to be able of properly articulating... phew....sorry for that :unsure:

[Karbala]

In His Name the Most High,


Salamun Alaikum


I spent an afternoon in the library and thoroughly researched the word "Innama".


Hadji is right about "innama" qualifying previous statements here is a quote From "Arabic Grammar" by GM Wickens defining the word Innama.

Only, Simply ; (Qualifies not the word or phrase immediately following it but the one beyond that "That came to it only after...........)

So the Phrase "Innama Yureed Allah" following the rules of Arabic Grammar qualifies the statement before, hence the statement "Innama Yureed Allah" is addressing something concerning the wives.


However interestingly "Innama" carries a number of meanings, here are a few


A New Arabic Grammar Haywood, Nahmad 1965

Indeed, In truth, Only(strongly affirmative particle)

Hans Wehr Dictionary 4th Edition 1979

Nothing, But; Rather, Much More, On the Contrary

Al-Mawrid Dictionary, Baalbak

Verily, Truly, Indeed, But, However, Yet, Rather, On the Contrary.

Notice the additional meanings <b>But, Rather, On the Contrary, However, Yet</b> which all carry the same meaning of negating a quality in a previous statement by strongly affirming a quality in the next statement. So if we translate 33:33 using these meanings we could render it as follows:


And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah <b>on the contrary</b> desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.


And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah <b>however</b> desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.


And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah <b>rather</b> desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.


Hence "innama" if used with these meanings can actually be used to disqualify the wives of the Prophet from AhlulBayt and this according to all the books I have read is a correct possible grammatical interpretation.