11-07-2003, 10:49 PM
Bismillah
I stated in that lengthy post that no country is implementing the laws of Islam. On that note, you MUST disregard the actions of those who say they are doing such when they are not. Any scholar of Islam will say this, unless they are currently employed by said regimes.
Also Iran is not a good example to use. Shi'ite and Sunni are not the same. There are major differences to the point they they have split into different sects. If I know anything about Shi'ite law, then I would be shocked. Seriously though, I have no background in that sect. If they think they are implementing shariah, then may Allah Guide them.
The Messenger of Allah was engaged to a six year old but did not marry her that young. In fact a previous engagement had to be disolved first. This practice is not unheard of. Islam was also the one that allowed the women for the first time in that society to decline marriage to someone they did not want to marry.
Slaves were owned by Rasul-Ullah. In fact he also freed them. One slave boy he took as a son or ward. Islam does not condone slavery. In fact it is a process of eliminating it. The rewards for freeing slaves are innumerable. It is highly encouraged. Now there is no slavery in Arabia whereas it is still practiced in many Asian countries. On the other hand, in the United States, people were forced to give up their slaves and the bloodiest war the US has ever seen erupted. Just as when drug offenders are sent to rehab instead of jail, the success rate is much greater for rehabilitation. People give up vices under encouragement and reward mosre easitly than under force.
To answer "Well I am not sure what other context it could be put in but I see you have tried to put it into a context.": If I was told that people in America go to jail for life for drugs, that is a misrepresentation of that law. Depending on the amount the person had, what kind is was, and how many previous offences the person has will dictate the extent of time spent in jail. If I get caught with a small amount of marijuana (first offence), I will get a "slap on the wrist." On the other hand if I am caught with a pound of heroin, I am going to spend some good time in prison.
"You have fallen into the same pattern, you somehow see reason in something there is no reason for." As being on the other side of the fence, I could say the same about you. This is a judgement call and I would prefer them to be kept out of the dialogue. I am attempting to refrain from finger pointing and classifying you in order to allow for a more open discussion. It will benefit us both Insha'Allah.
You state, "Again you rationalise the barbaric punishment (primaraly against women) in dogma. How would you feel if your sister, mother, aunt or another relative known to you were to be treated in such a way ?" Where did I state that this punishment is primarily for women? It is not. Do not state this country or that does it either. I have already addressed that. Do you think that I truly feel that the sexist morons who delusionally use Islam to justify their masagonist passions are correct? Please give me some intellectual credit as I do for you. You passed over the part of the law that stipulates four people must witness full penetration in order for anyone to be convicted. Personally, if I was walked in on by four people, the last thing I would encourage would be a closer look. This stipulation is pretty much leaving it up to the two individuals to make repentance to God. If they are not personally satisfied with that then God has allowed a way for them to pay now and not later in the punishment of Afterlife.
"I think that if you read up a bit more on the history of the times that the Prophet was capable of unsavourey stuff, slavery for example." I still think that you believe that I jumped into Islam with little regard as to what my American education had tried to intill in me.
I have done much reseach into the life of the Prophet, even including books. If your info is coming from a fierce opponent of Islam then of course they will paint the worst possible picture. Would you ask a jew about Jesus? Would you ask a muslim about Hinduism? I wonder where you are getting your information about Islam?
According to our previous discourses, you are not one to put forth too much energy into this matter otherwise I would ask of a bibliography. It is also because of this lack of work to inform yourself in the ways in which people request on this board that stonewalls me in our discourse. If you asked me to play soccer and I agreed but only if I did not have to run around or kick anything, would that be a game? Would I even be considered a player?
I want to step back from this discussion and point out that we are discussing the details of Islam. Say you wanted to travel across the ocean and I told you I had a vehicle. It has good mirrors. Very comfortable. The seats are made of leather. There is a radio. Someone will get you food or beverages if you need them. There is even a place for you to sleep if you need to nap. Next I tell you that the vehicle is a van. You see? I started at the wrong end. If I would have told you it was a van, you could have decided quicker.
Do you believe in God? Then we can go from there. That's how to discuss Islam.