11-07-2003, 05:38 PM
Bismillah
Unfortunately, you hear about stonings and other aspcects of Shariah from nonmuslims or even muslims who do not know in what context these type of punishments should be meted out.
First of all, there is no Islamic government on Earth. None. Not a single country with muslims in it has a leader or leaders who impliment the Islamic laws. As is the case of most leaders, they are only staying in power by however they need to.
In the example of stoning for adultery, this seemed extreme to me. Yet once I learned in what context it is implimented, it did not seem as it did before. First four witnesses must observe the act. The observation of that act must be the equivelent of the bucket decending into the well. We are talking about a type of observation that will not happen under any circumstances, unless there are some serious defects of character in all the parties involved and then they are not really that great of witnesses.
If one person comes across people in this act then it is their job to cover up their shame. As muslims were are supposed help hide the shame of one another from others. It allows people to repent to Allah and not be labeled as a fornicator. If you have ever been labeled by others with an unpleasant name, you know how hard it can be to shake that stigma.
A scholar of Islam was talking about two incidents of stoning that occurred in the lifetime of the Prophet.
First: A man committed adultery and felt guilty so he went to talk to a companion of the Prophet, Abu Bakr, and told him what he did. Abu Bakr asked if he had told anyone. The man replied in the negative. Abu Bakr said to not tell anyone else and make repentance to Allah. The man was unsatisfied with this answer so he went to another close companion of the Prophet, Umar.
After hearing his story, Umar asked if he had told anyone. The man said, "Yes. Abu Bakr." Umar asked the man what Abu Bakr said. "He said for me to make repentance and not tell anyone," the man replied. "Then why are you telling me?" Umar asked. "Do not tell anyone else and make repentance."
The man's heart was still uneasy so he went to the Prophet who according to the laws of Allah had the punishment carried out.
A woman had a child by adultery and raised the child for two years. Finally guilt got to her and she went to the Prophet to have the sentence carried out. After she was dead, a person made a comment about her lack of morals. Muhammad replied, "Don't do that. If this woman's blood was spilt all over the city, everyone would be forgiven." Meaning that if everyone made repentance like she did then all their sins would be forgiven.
In each case, the people who committed the sins sought out the punishment on their own accord. Even those closest and dearest to the Prophet wanted to help these people make repentance.
When stoning is carried out, the person enters the circle of thier own accord and are not tied up. If at any point, the person leaves the circle then the stoning stops.
Also, when a person is stoned here on earth, then the punishment in the Afterlife for that sin is not applied. The person was already punished for that sin. That was a reason why the people sought out that punishment. They did not want to suffer in the Afterlife.
In Afganistan, which was allegedly an Islamic government, many problems and conflicts with Islamic laws arose in that situation as also. Women were refused the right of education which has no place in Islam. The Prophet made specific time, I guess what we would call class time or school, for women to get educated.
In Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to drive. I do not know where this come from? Women rode camels at the time of the Prophet. I can continue but the ways in which Islamic law is not followed is quite extensive in every country.
By reading some Qur'an and some hadith, this makes no one a scholar of Islamic law. Just as there are lawyers so does Islam need people educated in the Shariah in order to fully understand the particulars.
I am in no way qualified to give extensive answers on fihq or shariah.
"I see it being used as an excuse to deny women their basic human rights specifically and human rights in general. It is totally backward and incompatable with a modern world, freedom and democracy."
When practiced correctly it does not. What religion on earth has not had some leader or leaders use it for their own advancements? It does not make the religion wrong but rather the people. I do not label protestants and catholics as violent just because a few of them decide to kill one another in Ireland. I do not think that all christians are anti-government and terrorists when Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrel Federal building in Oklahoma City. I do not think that all christians are for genocide when the Serbs decided to erradicate the Muslim population in the area. I do not think all Germans want to take over the world because of Nazi Germany's actions.
There is a professor of religions who said that it is analitically incorrect to make a statement about a religion that its adhearants would not agree with. Obviously. If I are saying that a religion is one way and the believers are saying no it is not like that, who am I to say that I know better. Do I know what your house looks like on the inside by seeing it from the outside? I would need you to invite me in and show me around. I would also have to leave my preconcieved notions at the door. If I think that the house is going to be dirty, then I am going to be looking for dirt as soon as I step in the house. If I leave my expectations at the door, then I am more inclined to be appreciative of your house.
I keep getting the feeling that you come to our house looking for dirt instead of giving us a chance. But if you have made up your mind then I know that I am not going to convince you. I lack the educational knowledge about certain aspects that you have questions about. Once again, this website cannot be your only Islamic source. If you do not want to read books then maybe check out www.islam.com. It has short articles ( I know your repelence for reading) by scholars of Islam that may answer questions you have.