Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
<b>'AlShamms'</b>
Quote:By mentioning Matthew 13:17, are you likening the muslim to these righteous men who desired to see the coming of the Messiah? If that is so, where is your cross?
It was you who bring Matthew 13 to the picture in an attempt to prove to us that "<i>we do not understand</i>" because "<i>it was not given to us to understand</i>", and so I just discovered that not only Muslims who don't understand but even the Prophets and righteous people (<i>i.e. because it was not given to them to understand</i>). So we are just in the same rank of the Prophets and righteous people, and that is fine for us. That was my point.
Now where is my cross??? It depends on your interpretation of the term, some Christians will interpret Jesus "<i>intention</i>" by saying carry your cross as physical pain or burden, while other will view that cross as a sign of love, atonement and sacrifice etc... however, "carry your cross and follow me" means to be prepare to die for this message, which is something similar to <b>JIHAD</b> in Islam, to struggle and exhort efforts for that cause. However, Jesus pbuh <b>was talking only to his disciples and not the entire mankind to carry their cross</b>.
BTW, in my Christian Greek Scripture it says: "<b>carry his torture stake</b>", no cross is mentioned, maybe you can explain to us the difference between cross and stake since you do not believe in the words of scholars as a proof, <b>maybe you will also argue that the Greek Scriptures are not accurate</b>!!!
Quote:And now you twist the Scripture to fit your own desire. That is not what that verse is speaking about. It's talking about those righteous men who lived before; Abraham, Solomon, David, Isaiah, who longed to see the coming of the Messiah.
I did not interpret anything, I only quoted a very clear verse which does not need any interpretation, and I will quote it again for other viewers <b>and let them tell us whether your interpretation make any sense</b>.
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the son of man will be fulfilled, <b>he will be handed over to the Gentiles, they will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him, and kill him and on the third day he will rise again</b>. THE DISCIPLES DID NOT UNDERSTANT ANY OF THIS, ITS MEANING WAS HIDDEN FROM THEM AND THEY DID NOT KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. Luke 18:31-34
<b>Members of Islam Message Forums</b>, please tell me what is so hidden in the above verse???
Quote:What was mentioned in Luke, was written before Acts 2, and when the Holy Spirit was given they then understood clearly why Jesus was crucified. So yes, I understand, and they understand too.
That is misleading, because in John Jesus told his disciples "<b>receive ye the Holy Ghost</b>" and the 4 gospels were written before Acts. However, this is not a big issue, the real point is that Luke 18:31-34 <b>does not need any Holy Ghost to descend upon ANYBODY to make them understand. </b>
Quote:I didn't say anything about worshiping Jesus, only that Jesus is the only way, only truth, and only way to eternal life with the Father.
In his time only because there was no Jesus during the OT, there was only Moses pbuh and the rest of Jewish prophets, <b>they were also the way to God in their time, they were to be followed in order to be saved. </b>
Quote:Wael, and as said in the other thread, true, you wouldn't have affection for that person, but if that person, at the time they were near you had a need, we, as followers of Jesus Christ, are commanded to meet that need. It has nothing to do with mental illness, like I said, it's about showing undeserved mercy and compassion, the same that was shown for us.
The teaching is beautiful, I agree, but it is not followed by Christians because it is impossible to be followed, come and show me 'LOVE' if I slap you hard in public, come and give me your other cheek, how many times will you allow me to slap you since I am an enemy (<i>for example</i>)?
I agree that if that enemy was in need later on and seeks my help, i would not hesitate to offer that help, <b>NOT BECAUSE I LOVE HIM</b>, but because i am commanded to return evil with that which is good.
Quote:As far as their words not being original....that is something I will not accept. And no, I wouldn't take the word of so-called scholars as proof.
This is the problem of you Christians, you can't even examine what possibly might be the truth, because truth hurts sometimes, I agree.
Salam
Wael.