04-10-2007, 04:52 AM
All for the greater glory of God.
Peace be with you!
Wael, please feel free to stick with your current standpoint on compulsion in the Bible. I'm reluctant to interpret these verses, but then again, there's nothing I love more than to study Scripture :)
Quote:Numbers 13:26-28
26 They came back to Moses and Aaron and the whole Israelite community at Kadesh in the Desert of Paran. There they reported to them and to the whole assembly and showed them the fruit of the land.
27 They gave Moses this account: <b>"We went into the land to which you sent us, and it does flow with milk and honey! </b> Here is its fruit.
28 But the people who live there are powerful, and the cities are fortified and very large. We even saw descendants of Anak there.
Wael, have you actually read this text? The spies return from Canaan (the Promised Land - Lebanon :wub: ) with a report of the inhabitants & a handful of grapes.
Quote:<b>"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. </b>
(Numbers 31:17-18)"
Please click on one of the following links for an interpretation...
Post #35 http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=4165&st=20
Post #13 http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showt...7&hl=Midianites
Post #79 http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=4042&st=60
Quote:<b>"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God
..." </b> (Deuteronomy 13: 5)
<b>"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;"</b>
(Deuteronomy 13: 6)
<b>"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." </b>
(Deuteronomy 13:8-9)
<b>"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."</b>
(Deuteronomy 13:15)
Moses (who received the commandment, 'Thall shalt not kill') is not attacking anybody. This passage is about idolaters who wish to promote idolatry & break the covenant between YHWH & the Israelites. The measures taken to prevent & punish idolatry were purely defensive at that time & no longer apply. In Galatians, St Paul states that similar people who exist today shall be accursed not killed because the Mosaic Law is not withstanding anymore. The Israelites had to protect the Messianic Line which Christ descends from. Anything that separated them from YHWH was to be avoided. When you really study the underlying meaning of this passage you'll realize that the harshness & exemplary nature of the penalties helps to make it clear that faithfulness to the Lord is more important than anything/anyone else for obvious reasons. Because we've all become one in Christ, nations are no longer against nations. Idolatry will now be dealt with by God not Moses.
Quote:<b>"But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such a one as goeth on still in his trespasses. The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea: That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same."</b>
(Psalms 68:21-23)
This is poetry. Not to be taken literally.
Quote:<b>"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
</b> (I Samuel 6:19)
Wael, if only you knew the profound meaning of this text. Very symbolic! The Ark of the Lord is the Blessed Virgin Mary who literally carries God's presence within her. In the O/T, the Ark wasn't allowed to be touched by anyone but the Levite Priests. This is to signify Our Lady's purity & virginity. When the Philistines in this passage stole the ark they were warned to send it back to the Israelites in order to save themselves. But instead, they did the unthinkable - they looked inside the ark. Big mistake! Let this be a message to all who profane & desecrate the Holy Tabernacles throughout the world. By doing so, you're asking for trouble.
Quote:<b>I guess we can clearly see a plenty of <i>no compulsion </i> in the Bible and freedom of religion.</b>
That's right! But if you use physical force in an attempt to make me a Muslim, I have a right to defend myself. Christianity is just, not passive.
Quote:Ready for you anytime CC, insh a Allah. Keep hitting your head :banghead:
Why bother? It's just not worth it!
Quote:when you introduce bible texts supporting compulsion
Just so you know, there's no such thing :)
In regards to "No Compulsion in Islam", when I read this I automatically assume that it implies we all have the freedom to practice & preach the religion of our choice. But that's not the case. No compulsion in Islam has conditions attached. Either you submit out of your own free-will or heavy restrictions apply to your life-style. In places like Saudi Arabia, infidels/dhimmies are forced to look like Muslims, talk like Muslims, act like Muslims & live like Muslims. You can't even become a citizen unless you're a Muslim. There might be a lack of compulsion in Islam, but I'm afraid there's also a lack of "freedom". I guess we'll just take what we can get for the time being.
Is it a sin for Muslims to befriend non-Muslims? Is this a command or a recommendation in Islam?
Thanks a lot & God bless.
<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>