03-02-2007, 04:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2007, 05:24 AM by Faith Hope Charity.)
To the Sacred Heart of Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Quote:Seriously??? you are not only breaking the 1st commandment FHC.
Not by venerating the Saints. I broke the first Commandment a few weeks ago when I chose T.V. over prayer. Thank God for the Sacrament of Confession.
Quote:Look at this image…
A picture speaks a thousand words! I could stare at it all day. Thanks for posting it :)
Quote:How could anyone bow down in prayer to a statue of Mary, yet at the same time deny that they are worshipping her? God clearly command you in the second of the ten commandments <b>NOT</b> to make unto yourslef <b>ANY</b> graven images.
We're merely praying to God through the intercession of that particular Saint.
I never accuse Muslims of worshipping the Kabba, or Iblis worshipping Adam.
The Second Commandment is "Do not take the Lord's Name in vain".
Quote:It says in plain English and need not for anyone interpretation that you are <b>NOT</b> to make unto yourself <b>ANY</b> likeness of anything that is in heaven!!! and you are saying that Mary is in heaven. you are NOT to make any likeness of her according to Exodus 20:4. So what do you call a statue of mother Mary? It surely is a likeness of her, a graven image! No matter how hard you try to stretch the meaning to suite your desire, it is against the commandment of God.
Wael, I hate to break it to you, but you don't know the O/T as well as you think you do, Mate :lol:
Ever heard of the bronze serpent, ark of the covenant, or cherubim???
The Incarnation of God has ushered in a new "economy" of images (CCC 1159). Before Christ's Life, Death & Resurrection, there were no souls in Heaven. The gates were closed. Now they're open. Praise Jesus!
The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, 'the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,' and 'whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.' Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is (CCC 2132).
Quote:You can argue whether or not you are worshipping Mary by bowing down to her; but one thing is for certain, <b>God has commanded you in Exodus 20:5 NOT TO BOW DOWN to her. </b> Even if you are not worshipping Mary, you ARE SINNING if you bow down to her because the Bible strictly forbids it!
If we were bowing down to her <b>as though she's a god</b>, then you'd be absolutely right!
Quote:You must understand that God Almighty (even if you call him Father), can never be compared by our real fathers and mothers here on earth. When we ask God for something, even if we were sinners, he listen to our beseeches attentively and need not for any mediator to intercede or explain one’s position, He wisely take the decision alone without anyone else' influence. You are degrading God to a very low level, how can God decide to punish someone for example but then Mary will interfere, <i>“Oh please Lord forgive this man, he begged me and I am the mother of Jesus so please don’t punish him”</i> , and So God will follow her. No FHC, God listen to our prayers and He is the Only One that can take the right decision, he does not need to listen to anyone else's opinion.
But you said earlier that Muslims pray FOR each other. Why's that necessary? Can't the petitioners just pray for themselves? Same thing, Wael. We believe that the Saints are alive in Heaven. Their prayers are powerful because they enjoy the Beatific Vision. We glorify the Saints because God has glorified Himself in them.
Quote:Again, I don’t understand what you just said.
No duh :lol: Think harder!
Quote:The do deny that they are not gods, but they do worship them… The don’t say that they worship them, but they certainly do in their actions.
Wael, you're not all-knowing (an attribute of Allah only). Please don't judge a book by its cover.
Peace & blessings!