Qadar

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Spirit - One God now & forever. Amen.


Salam Dan,

"Sobhan Allah, without even realizing it, you've argued my point for me, Dan."


I hope that you are just being silly... but in case you are not...


Two people are in the same World Trade Center Tower. It collapses. One lives... One dies. Did not that terrorist want everyone to die? Whose decision was it ultimately? Better?

Dude, I was totally being serious!


Great example! We're almost there. The one who dies is dead in accordance with Allah's (SWT) plan for him. Destiny. He wouldn't have died in that circumstance had it not been for the terrorist. Freewill. THEREFORE, was the whole incident set up by Allah (SWT) or the terrorist (despite his intentions)? Who willed it?

"DO YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHERE I'M COMING FROM???"


I understand. You are trying to understand how the Creator can Know everything and still allow for freewill. Okay...


How about if the Creator did not know everything (astaghfirullah), that allows for freewill? But then He is no longer All-Knowing ((astaghfirullah). You CANNOT have an All-Powerful, All-Knowing Creator not know even the smallest bit. It denies an attribute. Big Sin.

You still don't understand me, Mate! It has nothing to do with God's Omniscience & Omnipotence. I believe God's All-Knowing & All-Powerful. But I also believe that God never interferes with our free-will. We're not programmed robots. Predestination doesn't exist in Catholicism. God wills all souls to spend eternity in Heaven, but whether we make it there or not depends on our how well our will corresponds to His.

As I pointed out, you (small and unknowing... just like me!) are trying to fathom the unfathomable. Have this circle be a square too. Cannot be done. It is against logic. Do we think for one moment that an ant understands religion, poetry, art, etc... NO! It is not in their capacity. That is how they are created. Same as us. It is enough to know that He is All-Powerful and All-Knowing, just as all the ant really has to know about me is that my picnics can provide some food.

I tend to disagree. It's not against logic to know God. Human beings were created with an intellect for a reason (no pun intended).


The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God & for God; & God never ceases to draw man to Himself. Only in God will he find the truth & happiness he never stops searching for (CCC 27). Although we're limited in our human nature, we have the capacity to know who God is in His essence (Christianity), not only His will & attributes (Islam).


If a judge instructs me to stone an adulterer because Allah recommends it, I'd say "No way" because I know that's not who/what Allah is.


Rhetorical question (no need to answer)... Is adultery wrong because it's contrary to the essence of conjugal love, or because Allah says says it's wrong?


Salam Muslimah,

salam FHC so that u dont keep mixing issues up, if u r refering to martyrdom operations, there are views on that:


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=971


This is one topic, long read it up, u may continue searching using martyrdom operations u will get more info. I found out that the same link contains another link to more info. Enjoy.

Thanks for that!


I'll check out the thread as soon as I get a chance.


But I'm not mixing up issues. The topic at hand is predestination/free-will. Dan & I used martyrdom only as an example, however, it's an interesting subject so I wouldn't mind reading up on it. Thanks again.

salam FHC so that u dont keep mixing issues up, if u r refering to martyrdom operations, there are views on that:


Insh aAllah I will have to look for the pre destination replies, bring them all under one topic (this is what u and wael do to me when u take things up in several threads), then Insh aAllah see what is missing and fill the gaps.

Haha! I take full responsibility. We should turn the forum into a chatroom.


God bless.