Bismillah:
Amazing...
It’s totally true that there are many conceptions of God out there, but I would like to know from you <b>which concept of God that you have rejected the most?</b> (please try to be clear and straight to the point)... Please give us specific description of the concept of God that you’ve rejected and makes you an atheist?
Quote:I noticed you’ve made this, (rather silly), charge before, Wael, and except for making a grasp at derailing the subject, why do it?
Clearly, we are all here posting, reading, responding and mutually agreeing that there is a context of reality that we share and as such, we can forgo actually being in one another's presence. I know when FHC, for example, responds to one of my posts that there is a direct, contextual response that speaks to my comments. Clearly, <i>someone</i> is responding to what I write. In addition, I know that my actions have clear and unmistakable consequences. There is a trail of evidence (discernible and extant), to display those consequences.
If I were to go to FHC’s house and speak to her directly about her post, how is that not proving both her’s (and my) existence? I would agree to <i>you</i> it might then be considered hearsay, but nothing is stopping <i>you</i> from investigating it as well and concluding from the source (me) whether or not it's true. Sorry, your take on this collapses, and even if it is true, then your posts fall into the exact same category, and hence you are arguing your own argumentation that it is unreliable as we are not getting it "from the source". (FHC, sorry about all the unwanted company at your house)
Second, we are agreeing the posts <i>exist</i> and we are <i>reading and replying to them</i> -- we are not agreeing that everything said in every post is something we all agree with. I said this plainly and since you seemed to have missed it in innumerable posts, here it is again:
It’s a rhetorical question, of course. The litany of exceptions regarding irrational assertions is effectively endless. These are excuses, couched in terms of the supernatural to allow you to embrace your desires for existence to be more than what is right here and now. The fact is, look around you. As much of a struggle, as nice or as bad as it gets-- this is reality.
<b>Clearly you missed my point again..</b>
I know very well that <i>“someone”</i> out there in this huge universe is posting on our forums and his supposed name is 'Ruggedtouch' <b>but that doesn’t proof at all that it is YOU
who is really posting</b>… I too found your argument silly by rejecting God’s existence where you can see His signs and wonders wherever you go. So unless you prove to me your existence, you have no point at all to reject God Almighty's.
Quote:You are assuming the Koran is the final arbiter of what gods are about and you sure haven't made a single argument proving to me that we should take this assumption as fact. So before you quote chapter and verse, may we please see your proof that the Koran is authoritative on the question of god?
Ok, here is one point out of many evidences that the Qur’an comes from no one but Allah the Creator of everything.
The Prophet Muhammad pbuh had an uncle by the name of Abu Lahab. This man hated Islam to such an extent that he used to follow the Prophet around in order to discredit him. If Abu Lahab saw the Prophet pbuh speaking to a stranger, he would wait until they parted and the would go to the stranger and ask him, "What did he tell you? Did he say, 'Black'? Well, it's white. Did he say 'morning'? Well, it's night." He faithfully said the exact opposite of whatever he heard Muhammad pbuh and the Muslims say. However, about ten years before Abu Lahab died, a little chapter in the Qur'an (<b>Surah al-Lahab, Chapter 111</b>) was revealed about him.
It distinctly stated that he would go to Hell fire and will never believe in Muhammad’s pbuh message. In other words, it affirmed that he would never become a Muslim and would therefore be condemned forever. For ten years all Abu Lahab had to do was say, "I heard that it has been revealed to Muhammad that I will never change - that I will never become a Muslim and will enter the Hellfire. Well, I want to become Muslim now. How do you like that? What do you think of your divine revelation now?" <b>But he never did that. And yet, that is exactly the kind of behavior one would have expected from him since he always sought to contradict Islam. </b>
In essence, Muhammad pbuh said, "You hate me and you want to finish me? Here, say these words, and I am finished. Come on, say them!" (Say that there is no god but Allah and I am His Messenger) <b>But Abu Lahab never said them. Ten years! And in all that time he never accepted Islam or even became sympathetic to the Islamic cause. </b>
How could Muhammad pbuh possibly have known for sure that Abu Lahab would fulfil the Qur'anic revelation if he pbuh was not truly the messenger of Allah? How could he possibly have been so confident as to give someone 10 years to discredit his claim of prophethood? The only answer is that he was Allah's messenger; for in order to put forth such a risky challenge, one has to be entirely convinced that he has a divine revelation.
Salam
Wael.