01-30-2007, 08:21 AM
Bismillah:
Quote:The passage clearly indicates that the Father & Son are co-equal. You don't even need a Catechism to work that one out.
<b>Then why I cannot get it? </b>
If we agree for the sake of discussion that the Father and His son are co equal (and simultaneously co eternal), <b>then the Father also must have died when Jesus Crucified.</b> Otherwise we cannot call them co equal or co eternal.
Plus...
* Jesus declared that the Father is <b>GREATER than him </b> (not equal)
* Jesus declared that <b>no one (and he included himself) knows about the Day of Judgment except the Father </b> (not equal) If Jesus and God were equal then it follows that they will be equal in knowledge, which is not the case.
Quote:I know that the idea of the Blessed Trinity is frowned upon in Islam & that's cool. There's a difference between understanding a truth & accepting it. I'm not asking for both.
I am not asking for both either, I am honestly trying to understand it, <b>but since no one can explain it </b> (said St Augustine), then how can you expect us to understand something ambiguous?
Quote:Very interesting verse… is there any verse similar to this where he said indeed I am God Almighty? (Please don’t quote “before Abraham was I am” because its vague and does not really mean that he is God)
Wael, it's obvious that you're just testing me - LOL! I'll play your game, brother
Believe me FHC, am not playing any games… frankly speaking, I have no time for playing such games, and if my intention is to test you or to waste your time, then I shall expect no reward from God Almighty… am honestly asking you a very simple question (please read my statement carfully) because I myself till this day did not find any clear statement from the lips of Jesus himself where he plainly said "I am God Almighty, therefore worship me". There is none.
Quote:St John 20:28-29 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
That is really funny, in your post# 15 in thread “Three Beloved Prophets of Islam” when I told you about my wife’s miscarriage, then you said to me…
<b>My Lord & My God!</b>
Did anyone here understand that I am God (Astaghfurullah) ??? :D
Quote:Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe."
Yes, yes, yes... I know every Islamic apologist has a rebuttal for this verse.
Now you are quoting your Bible out of context…
You know what, when I read this verse, I immediately thought that I had finally found a verse that explicitly claims that Jesus "is" God. But please bear in mind that those words “My Lord and My God” spoken by Thomas and not by Jesus. However, there are a number of problems with interpreting this verse to mean that Jesus is God.
Firstly, the phrase "Thomas answered" is somewhat misleading since nowhere before this verses was Thomas asked a question. Thomas' words could more appropriately be referred to as an "outburst" or an "exclamation." This is indeed why most translations of the Bible (excluding the King James Version) follow this exclamation with an "exclamation mark" as follows: "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God !"
<b>Christian scholars such as Theodore of Mopsuestia (c.350-428), the Bishop of Mopsuestia, interpreted this verse to not be directed at Jesus but at God "the Father." Thus, it is similar in meaning to our modern exclamations of surprise "My God!" or "My Lord!." In other words, this was an outburst designed to display surprise and disbelief rather than an affirmation that Jesus was in fact God.</b>
That’s why I said earlier, that there is no where in the Bible any clear statement from Jesus himself claiming divinity… all verses that you may show are open for many interpretations. But as you know well, God is not the author of confusion!!!
Quote:The Father & the Son cannot be separated.
One God, remember?
Remember… The Father &The Son cannot be separated, therefore, <b>The Father must have died with the Son after the alleged Crucifixion</b>, or else don’t ever say that they cannot be separated.
Quote:"All prophets were sent to their own people for their own time (Ibrahim 14:4), but Prophet Muhammad was sent to all people for all time to come (Saba’ 34:28)."
I thought the Qur'an reveals that the Blessed Virgin Mary & her Son, Jesus Christ, were sent as a sign to ALL nations (I can't remember which sura/ayat but I can always find out for you if you're unfamiliar with it). Is that relevent at all to the above quote?
You are referring to Chapter 19 called Mary… Here Allah wanted to make Jesus as a sign for man. What this basically means is that Allah wanted <b>the virgin birth to signify a mighty miracle and mighty proof and sign of God</b>, because such a thing was impossible and unthinkable. <b>But his message was meant only to the Jews</b> and not to the whole of mankind, as it is also mentioned in the Bible that Jesus said “ <b>I WAS NOT SEN BUT TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL</b>”
Quote:Is it Allah's will that I be a Christian?
No you were born as a Muslim, The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist."
Quote:Muslims hold a very strong belief in predestination, right? Perhaps I'm the way I am because that's what Allah decrees. Yes or no??? I have no idea!!!
I leave this part for sister Muslimah to answer insh a Allah.
Salam for now
Wael.