01-15-2007, 02:38 AM
Quote:Hello RT :wavey:
Why do you fear death???
RT, it appears that you & I are the only ones reading this thread. Considering it has very little to do with Islam, shall we switch to PM mode? That way we can avoid essays & engage in a conversation-style interaction. Your posts contain everything from A-Z. Let's tackle one issue at a time. Please PM me with your response.
John Stuart Mill was spot-on when he said that Socrates dissatisfied is better than a pig satisfied. This discussion is rather intriguing!
Peace & Blessings.
<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>
Hey, FHC. I note that you and I are basically the only ones posting in this thread but it is getting a lot of "hits".
I haven't had a lot of time to go through your links, (I've had a nose-bleed work schedule to deal with). I did want to address your "fear death" comment though.
We all fear death I suppose, since no one knows what lies beyond that event...if anything. (Truth be known, I'll bet every fetus is scared xxxxless at the idea of <i>birth</i>, for the same reasons). Most likely death is simply "nothing", but that is as peaceful an eternity as any promised by religion.
But certainly I am as afraid of the pain, falling, hitting, bleeding, hurting, drowning, smooshing, burning, etc etc, as the next guy.
My take on death is this: I have a natural fear of it under certain circumstances. Let me illustrate: (note to FHC – what follows relates to a close friend I came to know and respect in the context of my earlier PM)
A close friend was diagnosed with melanoma at 33 years of age, and in the 5 months it took for him to die a miserable painful agonizing death in front of his 27 year old wife and his two daughters, one 7 and one 9 -- he was terrified.
This was a frightening, miserable and heartless way to die-- the pain and horror he endured was a nightmare, no appeals to Jesus changed a single thing, and he died less than three weeks before Christmas-- what a nice gift to his children. I do NOT wish to die that way. It's frightening, and the process of wrestling with one's mortality on an ongoing basis for months, always losing every battle, is mind numbingly terrifying.
Now someone else I knew only casually a few years ago was on his way home from work when he was approached from behind and shot in the head. He died instantaneously. This I cannot see being a necessarily "bad" way to go (the human tragedy part of it was terrible of course, but I mean more in the physical sense of dying). I know I have no choice in the matter (I must die sometime), but I readily have no fear of being alive one second and dead the next as I won't have time to even register the fact that I am dead.
What I find remarkable is the dynamic of islam’s martyr-murderers. The belief system has squelched the issue of self-preservation (via their ideology, which deceives them via a promise that cannot ever be proven to exist, i.e., paradise) and they are very much aware that being blown to bits pretty much snaps off the light switch with no time to register the fact that one is in pain or dead (academic argument, that last bit).
Perception is everything, of course, but I've always understood martyrdom to be based on dying for "the cause" at the hands of others...not the self-inflicted variety.
There's all sorts of honor accorded those who willingly lay down their lives in defense of (insert cause here)...the ultimate sacrifice.
I'd guess that's the mainstream opinion as well, at least in western societies, where I was raised.
Suicide on the other hand, is taught to be the "coward's way out" and, from the theists' points of view, the usurpation of god's role in taking something that isn't really "yours".
To commit suicide in a fashion that also takes the lives of other innocents is, of course, abhorrent to all societies...except orthodox moslems.
While they certainly didn't invent suicide bombing as a tactic, moslems are the ones saying these heinous crimes are legitimate, even honorable and praiseworthy, simply because they have changed the definition of mass murder/suicide to martyrdom.
Now imagine a world where everyone was instructed on the foundations of critical thinking, where each child was encouraged to question the supportive evidence of authority, where we all understood that our senses, while always accurately reporting what is there, often do not give us enough information to arrive at correct and sound interpretations --that we must always dig deeper and support the things we believe... Imagine that sort of a world.