Reminder For The Believer

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.



May the peace of our Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ, be with you!


<b>Hehe! God can't die!</b>


Therefore Jesus is not God.


The Son of God humbly took on human flesh to show us the true meaning of ours. He suffered & died for the world in His humanity, however, His divinity was untouched (obviously).



<b>Jesus Christ, the Son of God, assumed a human nature, therefore, He experience death in His humanity.</b>


Therefore Jesus is not God.


Nonsense!



<b>There is one God with one set of attributes (Quiescent Attributes - Eternity, Immensity & Omnipresence, & Immutability. Operative Attributes - Knowledge & Will. Other Attributes - Power, Holiness, Majesty, Wisdom & Goodness, Justice, providence, Truth, Mercy).</b>


same as what we believe, the question is who is this God?


Wael, you & I both believe in Allah - the God of Abraham. To Christians Allah is God the Father. I'm happy to just leave it at that :) As long as you're a good Muslim, Mate, I have no reason to argue with you!



<b>Jesus isn't ignorant of the hour of the second coming, but rather, He cannot reveal it, neither can men or angels, because reserved for the Father only to announce.</b>


I don’t know if the word “KNOW” means KNOW or means CANNOT REVEAL in your language?? That is redicilus, you are trying to explain the Bible the way you desire… the verse is crystal clear and doesn’t need anyone interpretation.. he DID NOT KNOW, NOT that he knew but cannot reveal.


The Greek word used in the original text is "eido" which implies a different tense (make known) when used in several other biblical verses, e.g. 1 Corinthians 2:2.



I was reluctant to mention this yesterday because it's diving too deep into Theology & it's totally irrelevant to that particular verse, but you probably should know that Jesus Christ possessed omniscient knowledge in His divinity & finite knowledge as a man (like the rest of us). I know it sounds far fetched, but please just take my word for it.


<b>Huh?? The only begotten Son of God is opposed to “The only begotten son of God”? I can only see letter S capital in your first quotation and the second one is small, is this what you mean?</b>


LOOK AT IT CAREFULLY! "Begotten <b>Son of God</b>" (which is the title given to the 2nd person of the Blessed Trinity) as opposed to, "<b>begotten son</b> of God".



<b>Dude, throw out that dodgy version of the Bible & buy one with the following translation... "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him" (RSV). </b>


Wow… be careful FHC, we have some protestant guests :)


Oops! Sorry! I honestly don't mean to offend anyone. Protstants are my Christian brethren - I got nothing but love for them ;) Wanna hear something funny? The worst translation of the Bible is actually a CATHOLIC one (NRSV). Some liberal Catholics put it together not too long ago. It's the only one that the Vatican has condemned!



<b>it is also strange that you are asking me to obtain the RSV while it is missing 7 whole books as compare to the Cathoic version? </b>


now you tell me which version should we follow?


Um... when we're discussing Catholicism, I'd appreciate it if you refer to the Ignatius or Navarre Bible (RSV - CATHOLIC EDITION) which is the closest to St Jerome's Latin Vulgate (4th Century AD). The Catholic version hasn't been tampered with. Our RSV is complete with all 73 books :)



<b>These verses tell us that the inheritance of eternal life is for anyone who believes and worships no other God, but the One True God. these verses WHICH WERE SAID BY JESUS HIMSELF never mentioned anything about , that whoever believes in him (THE SON) should not perish but have eternal life. Luke 10:25-28 agrees with Matthew 19:16-17 which says; </b>


"And behold, one came and said to him (Jesus), Good teacher, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life? So he (Jesus) said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? – No one is good but One that is, God. But if you want to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments."


When Jesus told the lawyer to worship God, He was referring to the One & Only God WHICH CONSISTS OF THREE DIVINE PERSONS! Why would Jesus say worship the Son? God is not the Son, but the Father, Son & Holy Spirit.



"Why do you call me good?" As far as I know this is the token verse that many Christians use to prove to Muslims that Jesus is God. The Scribe called Jesus "good". Jesus responded by stating that only God is good, therefore, He is truly God. Personally, I would rather Christians have strong faith rather than heavy proof.


<b>St Athanasius (4th Century AD) is the author of one of my favourite quotes... "The Son of God became the Son of Man so that the sons of man may become sons of God."</b>


What you just said doesn’t refute the fact that Jesus did have a God who is more powerful than him, and that’s why peter declared that Jesus is only MAN approved of God with wonders, miracles and signs WHICH GOD DID BY HIM, So God was only doing his Job through Jesus, but that doesn’t mean that Jesus himself was a God.


I always throw that quote in wherever I can - it's so profound!



Jesus is truly man, no doubt about it! But He is truly God too! It's complicated. When Jesus said "My God & your God" to St Mary Magdalene, he was drawing on O/T passages which speak about God reconciling Himself to the world. Jesus, who is the Messiah & King of the Jews, represents Israel (God's chosen people), however, Jesus didn't only save Jews, He saved Gentiles (sinners, non-Jews) too, so now the God of the 12 tribes of Israel is the God of all. We can now call upon our Heavenly Father as Jesus did because we share in the Divine Sonship of God (through the incarnation). Like I said, it's complicated! Let's stick to the basics for now.


<b>Jesus was simply quoting from Deuteronomy 6:4-5.</b>


So you mean he is quoting from OT but he doesn’t really mean what he was saying? That is lame, because Jesus pbuh did pray to God in many situations which can be found in the Bible, and since he needed a God to rely on then he is in no way can be a God.


He was conversing with Jews... why wouldn't He quote from the O/T? He did many times. If you were to ask me what the 1st Commandment is, I would say "Our God" too (although you're not Christian), because that's the literal way it was written down.



Jesus often communicated with our Father in Heaven. Perfectly fine!


<b>And once again you are most welcome to learn and ask about Islam.</b>


Thanks! If only everybody could join this forum. I think Islam is very misunderstood.



<b>You do worship her images but you cant admit it. </b>


To worship Our Lady would violate the first commandment. She, herself, would be devastaed if we worshipped her.



Catechism, paragraph 2131 - The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype, and whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it. The honor paid to sacred images is a respectful veneration, not the adoration due to God alone.


<b>There is no mention of any intercession in John 2:1? Do you mean because she said that they do not have wine, asking him to make wine?</b>


You answered your first question with your second one ;)



<b>There are millions of pious people living in heaven!! That doesn’t give you the right to ask them to pray for you, why? can’t God accept your prayers and listen to you directly if you are sincere? </b>


Of course you can pray directly to God. You don't have to call on the help of Saints if you don't want to.



<b>Oh please, Please… do you mean because Elizabeth called her “the mother of my Lord” ? lord does not mean God, Abraham was also called lord in the Bible by his wife, yet no one worshipped him. </b>


"And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, 'Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? ... Blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord'."



The Blessed virgin Mary is the new Arc of the Covenant (she carries God's presence within her). A quick breakdown...


2 Samuel 6:2 - "Then David and all the people who were with him set out for Baala of Judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which bears the name of the LORD of hosts enthroned above the cherubim."


Luke 1:39 - "During those days Mary set out and travelled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah."


2 Samuel 6:9 - "David feared the LORD that day and said, ‘How can the ark of the LORD come to me?’ "


Luke 1:43 - "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"


2 Samuel 6:11 - "The ark of the LORD remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite for three months, and the LORD blessed Obed-edom and his whole house."


Luke 1:56 - "Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home."


2 Samuel 6: 14, 16 - "Then David … came dancing before the LORD … As the ark of the LORD was entering the City of David, Saul’s daughter Michal looked down through the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD, and she despised him in her heart."


Luke 1:44 - "For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy."


<b>I really don’t care; I care about how simple salvation and forgiveness are according to the Bible without any need of sacrifice sinless person to save the sinners!!!</b>


Wait a second... Catholics don't believe that we are automatically taken up to Heaven when we die. We most certainly have to make sacrifices & try to live a sinless life (& continually ask for God's forgiveness) in order to be worthy of Heaven. Jesus Christ has offered us all salvation. It is now up to each individual to accept or reject His invitation. God made it possible through the life, death & resurrection of His Son. We make it happen by allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us there.



<b>What an amazing statement. Jesus is God, yet God is not Jesus.</b>


I repeat... Jesus is God (Incarnate). God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit - simple if you ask me!



<b>Now numerous quotations from the Bible can be given just to prove that Jesus neither SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD, nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD, he therefore can never be God. if we just replaced the name Jesus with “God” and quoted some verses from the Bible the picture will be crystal clear, and we have full right to do that since you are claiming that Jesus is God. So let us try.</b>


Wael, please remember that Jesus Christ is fully God & fully Man - He possess 2 natures (human, divine). The verses you brought up testify that Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of the Old Testament prophesies (the seed of David, Abraham's descendent, a Jewish Messiah, born in the town of David, a humble King, who will defeat Satan).



<b>They also say that they are the True Church of Christ </b>


Yet, they can't trace their origin back to Christ or the Apostles. You can view a list of Popes from St Peter the Apostle (first Pope), to St Benedict XVI (our current Pope) here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm



<b>and many Catholics have lost their faith recently specially after watching the popular movie (the passion of Christ).</b>


That's Hollywood for you!



<b> :) have a nice day</b>


Thanks! I was working all day (my co-worker is Muslim - we get along great!). Hope you had/have a nice day too :)