Bismillah:
<b>"You are totally going against the Catholic catechism…"</b>
Never!
doesnt seems so!!
Hehe! God can't die!
Therefore Jesus is not God.
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, assumed a human nature, therefore, He experience death in His humanity.
Therefore Jesus is not God.
There is one God with one set of attributes (Quiescent Attributes - Eternity, Immensity & Omnipresence, & Immutability. Operative Attributes - Knowledge & Will. Other Attributes - Power, Holiness, Majesty, Wisdom & Goodness, Justice, providence, Truth, Mercy).
same as what we believe, the question is <b>who is this God? </b>
Jesus isn't ignorant of the hour of the second coming, but rather, He cannot reveal it, neither can men or angels, because reserved for the Father only to announce.
I don’t know if the word <b>“KNOW”</b> means <b>KNOW</b> or means <b>CANNOT REVEAL </b> in your language?? That is redicilus, you are trying to explain the Bible the way you desire… the verse is crystal clear and doesn’t need anyone interpretation.. he <b>DID NOT KNOW</b>, NOT that he knew but cannot reveal.
"But of that day and that hour <b>knoweth no man</b>, no, not the angels which are in heaven, <b>neither the Son</b>, but
the Father." (Mark, 13:32)
<b>ONLY the father knows </b> about that day, but the son have no knowledge at all regarding this day.
Don't ever believe in anything you're unsure of & I encourage you to keep studying until it all makes sense to you!
Who told you that I am unsure of what I presented or that i might believe in something that is vague?
Read it carefully! It says: the only begotten Son of God as opposed to the only [/b]begotten son of God.
Huh?? <b>The only begotten Son of God </b> is opposed to <b>“The only begotten son of God</b>”? I can only see letter S capital in your first quotation and the second one is small, is this what you mean?
Well, then you must know that in the Greek language (<b>as well as Arabic and Hebrew</b>) there is no differentiation between a capital and small letters as in the languages of the Western countries today; <b>then how come your translators have come up with this interpolation?</b> They openly played fast and loose when translating <b>even</b> the Bible. For example:
" In whom the <b>g</b>od (the Devil) of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not "2 Cor 4:4
"And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a <b>g</b>od to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. " Exodus 7:1
Now you may also compare the above with JOHN 1:1, where the Christians have used capital <b>"G"'s and "W"'s</b> when referring to Jesus where in fact the original language have no such capital letters.
Dude, throw out that dodgy version of the Bible & buy one with the following translation... "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him" (RSV).
Wow… be careful FHC, we have some protestant guests :)
it is also strange that you are asking me to obtain the RSV while it is missing 7 whole books as compare to the Cathoic version?
Anyway, I do have the RSV… <b>actually 2 of them</b>, now it seems that you are using the Revised Standard Version of <b>1952</b>, where the word begotten was removed (from the KJV), now I’ve got another <b>Revised Standard Version of 1971</b>, where the word Begotten was <b>re-inserted once again</b>!!
now you tell me which version should we follow?
whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
here is what Jesus himself said about eternal life.
Luke 10:25-28:
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, <b>what shall I do to inherit eternal life?</b> He said unto him, what is written in the law? How readest Thou? And he answering said, <b>Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and Thou shalt live. </b>
These verses tell us that the inheritance of eternal life is for anyone who believes and worships no other God, but the One True God. these verses <b>WHICH WERE SAID BY JESUS HIMSELF</b> never mentioned anything about , <i>that whoever believes in him (THE SON) should not perish but have eternal life.</i> Luke 10:25-28 agrees with Matthew 19:16-17 which says;
"And behold, one came and said to him (Jesus), Good teacher, <b>what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life?</b> So he (Jesus) said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? – No one is good but One that is, God. <b>But if you want to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments." </b>
Indeed! Jesus sent out a message to the Jews which echoed 2 Kings 2:9-12 & Ruth 1:16 (Your people shall be my people, and your God my God). The Father of Jesus will now become the Father of the diciples because, once ascended, Jesus can give the Spirit that comes from the Father & they can be reborn as God's sons. That's why He calls them "my brothers."
St Athanasius (4th Century AD) is the author of one of my favourite quotes... "The Son of God became the Son of Man so that the sons of man may become sons of God."
What you just said doesn’t refute the fact that Jesus <b>did have a God </b> who is more powerful than him, and that’s why peter declared that Jesus is only <b>A MAN approved of God with wonders, miracles and signs WHICH GOD DID BY HIM</b>, So God was only doing his Job through Jesus, but that doesn’t mean that Jesus himself was a God.
Jesus was simply quoting from Deuteronomy 6:4-5.
So you mean he is quoting from OT but he doesn’t really mean what he was saying? That is lame, because Jesus pbuh did pray to God in many situations which can be found in the Bible, and since he needed a God to rely on then <b>he is in no way can be a God.</b>
I'm extremely grateful to this forum for giving me the opportunity to learn & share. I'm glad there's mutual respect between us. Insha'Allah one day Muslims & Christians can co-exist throughout the world in peace, love & harmony I admire your passion for Islam.
I will definitely echo what you just said. And once again you are most welcome to learn and ask about Islam.
I should've mentioned this yesterday... Having a picture/statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary in your house (or any other Saint) isn't a sin. It's just like hanging family photos on the wall & acknowledging the people in them.
This is the beginning of committing the unforgivable polytheistic sin, now you are saying that there is no problem if you keep images and statues (whether at your home or in the Church), afterwards you might also say, there is no problem if I bow down as a sign of respect to the blessed Mary, there is no problem if I touch the images, there is no problem if I honor her through this image… all of these are acts of worship. You do worship her images but you cant admit it.
<b>You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I The Lord your God am a jealous God, </b> visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate Me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love Me and keep My Commandments." RSV
<b>Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,</b> visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; KJV
I hope you don’t tell me to throw away both translations.
<b>The only thing Mary can do for Christians is intercede for us. </b>
Any reference from the Bible?
St John 2:1 (Wedding at Cana).
There is no mention of any intercession in John 2:1? Do you mean because she said that they do not have wine, asking him to make wine?
<b>So in actual fact, we aren't praying to Mary, we're asking her to pray for us</b>
Is she alive today to pray for you?
Yes! In Heaven (Revelation 12:1-18). I can barely interpret the book of Revelation due to its apocolyptic & symbolic language, so if you're going to attempt it, have a copy of the Catechism handy - just a helpful tip
There are millions of pious people living in heaven!! That doesn’t give you the right to ask them to pray for you, why? can’t God accept your prayers and listen to you directly if you are sincere?
<b>Do you have right to call her the mother of God during Rosary? Does the Bible give you the right to call her with this title? any reference from the Bible ?</b>
St Luke 1:41-45. The Bible never contradicts reason. It took me a while but I kind of worked out this mystery using logic.
Oh please, Please… do you mean because Elizabeth called her “the mother of my Lord” ? <b>lord does not mean God</b>, Abraham was also called lord in the Bible by his wife, yet no one worshipped him.
But there's more to it, Wael! By dying for our sins, Jesus destroyed death & by His resurrection, He has restored our life. The New Covenant means that the gates of Heaven have now been opened.
I really don’t care; I care about how simple salvation and forgiveness are according to the Bible <b>without any need of sacrifice sinless person to save the sinners!!!.</b>
In His humanity... Yes! In His divinity... the Son is equal to the Father! Jesus' humanity & divinity were united through the Incarnation. Jesus Christ is a Divine Person (Son of God) with a fully divine nature & a fully human nature. True God & True Man!
Same as you are telling me that I have a friend who is <b>short & tall man</b>!!! If you believe that such person exist who is <b>tall and short at the same time</b>, then maybe we can consider to believe in a God who is <b>God and a man at the same time</b>, which is impossible.
Jesus is God (but remember it's improper to say that God is Jesus).
<b>What an amazing statement. Jesus is God, yet God is not Jesus.</b>
Anyway, according to my little knowledge, Christians believe that Jesus <b>SHARES THE FATHER’S NATURE </b> but he is not the Father, and That <b>HE (JESUS)</b>
IS IN EVERY WAY LIKE THE FATHER but he is not really the Father". Now numerous quotations from the Bible can be given just to prove that Jesus neither SHARED THE NATURE OF GOD, nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD, he therefore can never be God. if we just replaced the name Jesus with “God” and quoted some verses from the Bible the picture will be crystal clear, and we have full right to do that since you are claiming that Jesus is God. So let us try. For example:
"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ/God, our Lord, which was made of the SEED of David according to the flesh." (Romans, 1:3)
"The generations of Jesus/God, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matthew, 1:1)
And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the Child/God, his name was called Jesus." (Luke, 2:21)
"Jesus/God was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king. (Matthew, 2:1)
"Jesus/God was a carpenter by trade." (Mark, 6:3),
"and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew, 13:55)
"And Jesus/God, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon." (John, 12:14)
"Shoes of Jesus/God" (Luke, 3:16), "Garments and coat of Jesus/God" (John, 19:23)
"And immediately the spirit driveth him/God into the wilderness. And he/God was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan." (Mark, 1:12-13)
<b>PLEASE NOTE THAT THE BIBLE ALSO SAID THAT TRUE GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED WITH EVIL </b>
"God cannot be tempted with evil,neither tempteth he any man." (James,1:13)
"And when he/God had fasted forty days and forty nights, he/God was
afterward an hungered." (Matthew 4:2),
"Now in the morning as he/God returned into the city, he/God hungered." (Matthew, 21:18),
"and on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he/God was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)
I still can go on and on, but according to the quotations of the Bible given above and many more was not quoted, you can easily conclude that that Jesus did neither <b>SHARE THE NATURE OF GOD nor is he IN EVERY WAY LIKE GOD. He is, therefore, definitely NOT God! </b>
Sad but true! Hey, just so you know... before the Reformation (16th Century AD), all Christians held the same beliefs (but there were 2 traditions - East & West). Unfortunately, today there are approximately 50,000 different Christian denominations worldwide all teaching whatever they want - it's ridiculous! I guarantee you that the Catholic Church will stand the test of time! It's the only one that constantly gets attacked & targeted by Satan throughout the ages. Why? Because it's the true Church of Christ Jesus!
They also say that they are the True Church of Christ, they are also attacked by other denominations, and many Catholics have lost their faith recently specially after watching the popular movie (the passion of Christ).
:) have a nice day
Salam
Wael.