10-01-2006, 03:06 AM
Bismillah:
Quote:You yourself have said it: This verse is open to another interpretation. Even when Jesus comes straight out and says that he is God, you do not want to see it, and therefore, it is not to you.
No I said it once in the Philippines in public discussion with Christians and I will say it again, <b>if anyone is able to show me a single verse where Jesus declare it plainly that he is God, or where he say worship me</b>, I am ready to embrace Christianity
… <b>but there is none and therefore I cannot believe in such invention. </b>
Quote:The fact is, that you are asking the same questions, with almost the same language, as the Jews did who were asking Jesus about his divinity in John. Remember, they said, "Tell us plainly". Jesus replies with "I did tell you....I and the father are one".
No, now you are 'removing words' from the original text to suite your desires because in fact this is the way how you want to believe, if you told me that I have faith that Jesus is God, then am not going to open my mouth, I will defently respect your faith, but to say that <b>he himself claim divinity!!! I will disagree very strongly</b>… now <b>see and read</b> the question which was posed by the Jews to Jesus.
The Jews asked Jesus the following: "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ
, tell us plainly." (John 10:24). <b>And as you know, Christ does not mean God</b>… they tell him if you are Christ say it plainly. And he replied in verse 25 to 30:
25. "Jesus answered, I did tell you, but you do not believe. <b>The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,"</b>
26. "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep."
Jesus rebuts the false charge of his enemies that he was ambiguous in his claims to being the Messiah that they were waiting for. He says that he did tell them clearly enough, yet they would not listen to him, but:
27. "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."
28. "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; <b>no one can snatch them out of my hand."</b>
29. "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all
; <b>no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.." </b> (John 10:29).
How can anyone be so blind as not to see the exactness of the ending of the last two verses. But spiritual blinkers are more impervious than physical defects. He is telling the Jews and recording for posterity, the real unity or relationship between the Father and the son. The most crucial verse:
30. "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30).
One in what? In their Omniscience? In their Nature? In their Omnipotence? No! <b>One in purpose</b>! That once a believer has accepted faith, the Messenger sees to it that he remains in faith, and God Almighty also sees to it that he remains in faith. This is the purpose of the "Father" and the "son" and the "Holy Ghost" and of every man and every woman of faith. And that was explanined also in the book of John
<b></b>
."That they all may be one as thou. Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us..." I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one..."(John 17:20-22)
the same word "ONE" was used in both verses.
Quote:Their response to that is "You, a mere man, claim to be God". They ask for a straight answer. Jesus gives it. They respond with an appropriate answer for Jesus' response. Had Jesus' words been more likely to be another interpretation, or been incredibly loose, then he would have told them what he meant, and told them that he was united with the father in purpose only. However, the Jews pick up stones in verse 31 because they say that Jesus sets himself up as God, then in verse 39, after Jesus has had a chance to clarify his statement, and remove any doubt about what he said, they still want to arrest him/stone him/whatever.
You are jumping...
31. "Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,"
32. "but Jesus said to them, <b>I have shown you many great miracles from the Father</b>. For which of these do you stone me?"
33. "The Jews answered him, saying : 'For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself a God.'" (John 10:31-33).
So what he said:
34. "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, `I have said <b>you are gods'?" </b>
35. "If he called them <b>`gods,' to whom the word of God came --and the Scripture cannot be broken--," </b>
36. "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, <b>`I am God's Son'?" </b> (John 10:34-36).
He is a bit sarcastic in verse 34, but in any event, why does he say: "Your Law"? He is obviously quoting from the 82nd Psalm , verse 6, "I have said, ye are gods: and all of you are the children of the most High."
Jesus, continues: "If he (i.e. God Almighty) called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (<b>meaning that the prophets of God were called 'gods'</b>) and the scripture cannot be broken..." (John 10:35), in other words he is saying: <b>"you can't contradict me!" Jesus knows his Scripture; he speaks with authority; and he reasons with his enemies that: "If good men, holy men, prophets of God are being addressed as 'gods' in our Books of Authority, with which you find no fault, then why do you take exception to me? When the only claim I make for myself is far inferior in our language, viz. 'A son of God' as against others being called 'gods' by God Himself. Even if I (Jesus) described myself as 'god' in our language, according to Hebrew usage, you could find no fault with me.</b>" This is the plain reading of Christian Scripture <b>and many other Christians sects interpreted and understood the same context as Muslims. </b>
Salam
Wael