Let the debate begin-Round One

[John 15:18]

Bismillah:


if both are God, then we should at least read one single verse where there is <b>clear explanation</b> that they are both <b>are the same God</b>… but when you read the Bible you see the exact opposite. So what I can see now is that <b>Christianity is based on what people have said about Jesus pbuh and not what he declares about himself.</b>


Salam


Wael.

I'm tired. I don't have the time or the presence of mind to go through the whole argument. What I will say are the two following things:


1 - Jesus' words were not to 21st century Muslims. They were to first century Jews, who understood the implication of invoking the ancient and sacred name of God. "I AM" meant to the Jews the same thing as saying "I am God".


2 - Looking for a single verse where Jesus says that he and God are the same....


John 10:30: "I and the father are one". That, in Greek, is in the neuter, not in the masculine, so "one essence" over "one person". You can say I am slanting the Greek, but Jesus is saying that he and the father <b>are one</b>. Thus the I AM earlier, in case you didn't follow him. That is what Jesus declared about himself. He and the father are one.


And the earlier verse still stands. To his audience, who knows the Old Testament, He was saying that He was God. Thus they tried to stone him. Why? Because


John 10:33: "We are not stoning you for any of these, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God".


They got what Jesus was saying. You do not. And I understand that you will not, so that's fine. You've helped me to defend my faith, and to look back and ensure that Jesus is divine.


It has been interesting sparring verbally with you. You make a good case, and you've been well taught.


"How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."


Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand. My father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my father's hand. <b>I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE</b>.


All that he says about God applies to himself as well. And the Jews felt the need to stone him. Because they could not understand that Jesus could be God, even though he could be nothing else.


I know you're going to quote John 17, saying that Jesus prayed: "Protect them by the power of YOUR name - THE NAME YOU GAVE ME - so that they may be one, as we are one."


The disciples should be as united in mind and purpose as God the Father and God the Son. Father and Son are of the same essence, the disciples are of one essence as well. And they should continue to be united in purpose as well. Oh, and here, Jesus says that the name of the Father is the name that is his name as well.