Bismillah:
Quote:<b>That wasn't the challenge. You asked us to find a single verse where Jesus said he was God OR where he said "worship me". I found one of those. Can't change the rules now. If he's God, you would agree that he is worthy of worship.</b>
Are you saying that you really found where Jesus said I am God? is the term <b>I am </b> means <b>I am God</b>? cant you see that the word 'God' is missing in the statement that Jesus used?? please show me where he said <b>I am God </b> and so <b>worship me</b>… but what i can see in the Bible is that Jesus <b>can do nothing on his own</b>, <b>the words he spoke are no his own</b>, that <b>he does not know about the day of judgment</b>, that <b>God used him to perform these miracles</b>… are you still saying that he is God… come on please…
Quote:<b>The person speaking in Proverbs 8: Wisdom. Nice try. Wisdom has every right to exist before the world, and isn't a person.</b>
<b>Hebrews 7</b>
<b>Wisdom speaking?</b> Is this another mystery like trinity? This interpretation makes no sense at all.
Quote:<b>Melchizadek was around before Abraham. He was dead long before the arrival of Christ. His eternality, lack of parents, etc, is to show his difference from the priesthood of Aaron. Jesus was a priest, but not a levite, whose rules for succession were based on geneology. Jesus was a priest from the eternal order of Melchizadek, which is not based on time or on descendency.</b>
Really the verse does not need your comments… it is clear cut statement.. it says that this King of Salem <b>IS</b> Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life… so if anyone claim that Jesus is God, then Melchazdics is a greater God…
With regard to your comparison of "I am" in the verse of Exodus 3:14 with that of John 8:59, please note that in <b>John 9:9</b>, a beggar who was healed by Jesus pbuh used these exact same words used by Jesus ("I am") to refer to himself.
"Some said, This is he (the beggar): others [said], He is like him: [but] he said, I am [he]."
John 9:9.
Quote:You must see the difference between saying "I am" in reference to a question, "are you that guy", and "I AM" in reference to being in existence before Abraham. Someone uses the name of God, and uses it in reference to eternal existence. Not the same thing.<b></b>
Don’t you know that Jeremiah was made a prophet before his birth? Why cant you understand that Jesus was also saying that he was there in the plan and knowledge of God before Prophet Abraham was sent?
<b>"Before I formed thee in the belly (of your mother) I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."</b>
Jeremiah 1:5
Quote:Read a little further. Jesus tells him who he is: "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" He answered, "And who is he, sir? Tell me so I may believe in Him" Jesus said to him, "you have seen him. And the one speaking with you is He." He said, "Lord, I believe." and he WORSHIPPED HIM" (John 9:35-38). After Jesus reveals who he is, the beggar worships him. Jesus does not correct him. The worship comes naturally.
Note that Jesus did not ask him <b>“do you believe in me as God”? </b> he said do you believe in the <b>Son of man</b>… and also the term Lord does not always mean God… now the man worshipped Jesus, oh and Jesus didn’t object, therefore he is God, is that what you are trying to say ?
Now you need to understand the term worshipped which is translated from the Greek word <b>"prosekunesan"</b> which is derived from the root word <b>proskuneo {pros-ku-neh'-o}. </b> The literal meaning of this word is "to kiss, like a dog licking his masters hand." This word also has the general meaning of "bow, crouch, crawl, kneel or prostrate." Please check the <b>Strong's concordance </b> for the true meaning of this word. Is the act of kissing someone's hand the same as worshipping him? Once again, <b>selective translation. </b>
How can you explain "kneeling down before Jesus."? Should we understand that they were "praying" to him? Look at what your Bible says:
<b>"And when Abigail saw David, she hasted, and lighted off the ass, and fell before David on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, And fell at his feet, and said, Upon me, my lord, [upon] me [let this] iniquity [be]: and let thine handmaid, I pray thee, speak in thine audience, and hear the words of thine handmaid." </b>
1 Samuel 25:23-24
When Abigail "fell before" king David was she "worshipping" him? Was she "praying" to him? When she addressed him as "my lord," did she mean that he was her God?. this act was repeated several times in the Bible, I could quote many verses if you wish…
The word "Worship" also means <b>"to respect," "to reverence," or "to adore"</b> (see Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, tenth edition). Doesn’t really mean that this man worship Jesus as God… still you have no provide any thing to proof Jesus’ divinity.
Quote:[/b]Jesus uses the exact same words that God used in the Old Testament to say that is how he would be known forever and ever. Can it be any clearer? That's the name God Himself chose. Jesus used it. You don't think it means that Jesus is God. He would disagree.<b></b>
Using God’s name (if that was really His name) does not mean that he himself is God. Or else why he commanded you to worship and serve the father ONLY?
Jesus (pbuh) never in his lifetime told anyone to worship him. It was others who did that. Quite the contrary, whenever Jesus (pbuh) spoke of worship, he always attributed it to God and never himself: <b>"Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve"</b>
Luke 4:8. Notice the words: "<b>Him ONLY</b>." Jesus did not say<b> "US only," or "Him and I only</b>." How could he possibly make it more clear than that? What abstract meaning are we now going to concoct for this verse to show that what Jesus "<b>really" meant was "worship BOTH of us"? </b>
Salam
Wael