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Let the debate begin-Round One
#22

Peace....


Wael, you bring up a few different points and I'm try to address them from a Biblical perspective so that no accusation of me using my opinion will come up.


You mention that because men don't understand the concept of one God in three persons, and in their attempt to understand they label it a mystery, then the idea of the trinity has to be man made because God is not the author of confusion. Ok, here we go.


First what needs to be addressed is the fact that there are indeed mysteries about God contained in the Bible, and simply because something is a mystery or unknown does not mean it is confusing or man made. An example of such mysteries is:


Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.


Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:[u/] The "mystery" of the kingdom of God is given to some, and not to others.


1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Wael, you also quote many men who seem to believe that the concept of the trinity is not Biblically taught but added to Christian worship later in history. You quote one such source as saying:


"The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the (Trinity) idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognized the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One."


(The Paganism in Our Christianity)


My question to you then is: The author of the above states the early Christians "paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and thy recognized the Holy Spirit"


What then are "devotions" and how were they paid to Jesus Christ? And what did the early Christians recognize the Holy Spirit to be?


Well "devotions" as an English word appears in the Bible once, in Acts 17:23:


"For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you." Now "devotion" in Greek is the term "sebasma" and means, according to Thayers Greek Lexicon, "whatever is religiously honoured something adored, an object of worship". If “devotions” were paid to Jesus Christ by the early Christians, then they must have recognized Christ as being one worthy of such worship and did not think it blasphemous to do so. I’ve already shown you evidence that the early Christians recognized the Holy Spirit to be God as is evidenced by the verses quoted before.


Let’s recap so far: Early Christians recognized God and worshiped him. They also recognized Jesus Christ as the Son of God and worshiped him. They also recognized the Holy Spirit as God. This triune nature is indeed found throughout the New Testament. In 2nd Corinthians we read:


“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.”


Also in 1st Peter we read: “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”


So simply because the word “trinity” wasn’t used does not mean the doctrine that the word implies was not taught.


Wael, you also quote from a book entitled “Should You Believe in the Trinity” I’d like to ask, where did you find this book? Who wrote it? When was it published? Once again I believe you aren’t being honest or forthcoming in this conversation we’re having. I ask because I know of a group that produced such a book. A group that call themselves Jehovah’s Witnesses and every serious Biblical scholar knows them to have written their own bible to suit their unbiblical doctrines.


Wael, are you quoting a sect of Christianity to try to prove your disbelief in the Trinity? A cult that no true Christian would accept as being apart of Christ’s church? Wouldn’t that be the same as me quoting something from the Shia sect to you? Would you accept anything from them?


Shamms

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Messages In This Thread
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-21-2006, 07:45 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by AlShamms - 09-21-2006, 02:34 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by AlShamms - 09-21-2006, 04:59 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by submit - 09-21-2006, 04:59 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by AlShamms - 09-21-2006, 05:01 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by submit - 09-21-2006, 08:32 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-22-2006, 09:28 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by Muslimah - 09-22-2006, 10:46 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by AlShamms - 09-22-2006, 03:35 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 09-22-2006, 09:31 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-24-2006, 02:48 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-26-2006, 01:32 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-26-2006, 04:00 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by AlShamms - 09-27-2006, 04:13 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-28-2006, 03:49 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by AlShamms - 09-28-2006, 01:45 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-28-2006, 11:52 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 09-29-2006, 12:04 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-29-2006, 02:48 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-29-2006, 02:53 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by reepicheep - 09-29-2006, 03:40 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-29-2006, 03:58 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 09-29-2006, 04:58 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-29-2006, 08:30 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 09-29-2006, 04:38 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-30-2006, 03:03 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-30-2006, 03:44 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 09-30-2006, 04:38 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 09-30-2006, 07:05 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 09-30-2006, 01:33 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 10-01-2006, 03:06 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 10-01-2006, 02:24 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 10-02-2006, 02:55 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 10-05-2006, 04:40 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by wel_mel_2 - 10-05-2006, 07:51 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by Rock - 10-06-2006, 07:32 PM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by John 15:18 - 10-15-2006, 12:33 AM
Let the debate begin-Round One - by Rock - 10-18-2006, 08:48 AM

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