09-22-2006, 03:35 PM
Peace......
Submit you stated:
"You've confused me a great deal. If the trinity is a "a man made construct to describe the principle that the Bible conveys" then there is no point argueing about it, because you've just told me it's made up and is a theory used to describe a principe. Plus it sounds like you don't believe in it, although i might be wrong.
Care to explain your position and beliefs?"
Yes I can expound and explain, and I am sorry if I confused you. When I stated that the WORD “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, I was saying that the WORD “Trinity” was invented to convey the Biblical principle of God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit. I was in no way implying that the CONCEPT of God the Father, God the Word and God the Holy Spirit which is found in the Bible, was invented by man and not revealed by Jehovah. There are different places in the Bible where the three above are each called “God”. Meaning, the Holy Spirit is called God, the Word (whom the Bible and the Qur’an both confirm is Jesus Christ) is called God, and of course Jehovah is also called God. I will show you those verses in the Bible and then show you where the CONCEPT of “Trinity” is found in the Bible.
The Holy Spirit called “God”:
Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 While it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
In verse 3 the companion of Jesus called Peter asks Ananias why he yielded to temptation from Satan to lie to the Holy Ghost. Then in the very next verse Peter wants Ananias to understand exactly what he had done, telling him that by lying to the Holy Ghost, he had not lied to men, but lied to God. The penalty for lying to the Holy Ghost which was God was death, as is witnessed in verse 5.
The Word called “God”:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:16 And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
I know the above is long but I felt it important to include it all for contextual understanding. In verse one we read a few things about the “Word”. That the Word existed since the beginning; that the Word was with God in the beginning; and that the Word was God. We read in verse 3 that all things were created by the Word and that nothing exists that was not created by the Word. We then read in verse 4 that in the Word was life and that this life was the light of men. We then read about a warner named John who comes as a witness to the light that was the life that was in the Word.
(I hope you are still with me)
In verse 10 we read that the Word was in the world, the world was made by the Word, and that the world did not know the Word (in Greek knew is the word “ginōskō” and means to properly understand). So the world didn’t properly understand who the Word was. But for those who did receive the Word, the Word gave them power to become the sons of God.
Now, let me stop here and bring a few points to light. Not everyone on the inhabited earth is a son of God. That distinction must be given to them by the Word and the only way that can happen is if that person receives the Word (in Greek receive is the word “lambanō” and means to associate with one’s self as companion, attendant; to admit, receive; not to refuse or reject).
Continuing on in verse 14 we read that this Word, that was in the beginning with God, who itself was God, and by which everything came into existence became flesh and dwelled among men. This Word that became flesh is the same man that John the warner gave witness about and also states in verse 15 that this man, this Word that became flesh was preferred over John and existed before John.
"Trinity” in the Bible:
In the book of Genesis in the first three verses of the first chapter we read this:
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Remember what we read and please try to follow me here. In verse one we have Jehovah; in verse two we have the Spirit of God; and in verse three we have Jehovah speaking, causing his Word to act. So there are:
1. Jehovah
2. The Holy Spirit
3. The Word of God
Each eternal, each God. I know this was a lengthy post I hope I didn’t lose anyone along the way. I hope this explains my position and beliefs and I pray that those who have an ear to hear, hear.
Shamms