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wel_mel_2 · 07-03-2006, 03:53 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:You know we do not agree about the nature of Jesus or God for that fact. If we both agreed than we'd both be Christians or I'd be Muslim.

Hopefully one day you will realize the truth and accept Islam as many did before you. Insh’aallah. :)

Quote:I think your treatment of the bible concerning the divinity of Jesus is reaching at best. I think a better defense to the claim that Jesus is God would be to try to discount the bible as a whole.
Belief in the Trinity or Jesus is not based on blind faith. The fact of Jesus' diety and the Trinity is rooted in scripture. The council of Nicea only wrote down what had been Christian doctrine since Jesus ascended into heaven and left his diciples to preach the good news.

Your treatment of the word "Lord" is choosy. They are also many biblical references where "Lord" is used for God.

I will not comment anymore on this issue since you are not supporting your claims with any proof. All verses you have quoted before are ambiguous and can be interpreted in MANY different ways.

Quote:What miracles did Mohammed achieve?

I know very well that you are completely unaware of what Prophet Muhammad pbuh did.

Anyways let me remind you that the miracles which performed by all Prophets of God who came before Muhammad pbuh such as parting of sea by Prophet Moses (pbuh), giving life to the dead by Prophet Jesus (pbuh), etc. convinced the people of that time only but these miracles cannot be analyzed and verified by us today. 

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and final Messenger of God, sent for the whole of humankind and the message he delivered is for eternity. The Qur’an says:

“We sent you (Prophet Muhammad) not but as a mercy for all creatures.” (Al-Qur’an 21:107)

Therefore the miracle of the last and final Messenger should also be everlasting, examinable and verifiable by people of all ages, after its revelation. Though Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) performed several miracles as are mentioned in the Hadith, including healing the sick, feeding the multitude with small amount of food and milk etc…but he never emphasized them. Though we Muslims believe in these miracles we only boast of the ultimate miracle given to him by Almighty God, which is the Qur’an. 

Al-Qur’an is the miracle of all times which proved itself to be a miracle 1400 years ago and which can be reconfirmed today and forever. In short, it is the Miracle of Miracles. 

Did he heal the sick? Feed the multitude?

Yes he did, shall we consider him as God too? No we don’t. the power of healing etc was given to him by God to support his claim that he was a Prophet of God.

Quote:Walk on water? Raise people from the dead? Forgive sins? Calm the storm???? No.

Yes Muhammad pbuh did not do all these miracles, simply because each and every prophet was given different favors and different miracles. For example, did Prophet Abraham split the sea as Moses did? Will you conclude that Moses is greater than Abraham? Did Moses part the sea by his own power? Or God has given him this kind of power? Of course all these miracles were done by God alone. 

Still not convinced? Ok hear those words from Peter, he said it clearly and plainly:


Acts 2:22 "O you men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN
approved of God among you, with miracles , wonders and signs WHICH GOD DID BY HIM
....."

Clear, simple and plain that ALL miracles which attributed to Jesus were done only by God.

What you don’t understand is that miracles are not the test at all. The Muslim has no hesitation about accepting the most wondrous of his miracles - even that of reviving the dead. But that does not make Jesus a "God" or the begotten "Son of God" as understood by the Christian.

Miracles do not prove even prophethood, or whether a man is true or false. Jesus himself said:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."(Matthew 24:24)

If false prophets and false Christs can perform miraculous feats, then these wonders or miracles do not prove even the geniuses or otherwise, of a prophet. 

John the Baptist, according to Jesus, was the greatest of the Israelite prophets. Greater than Moses, David, Solomon, Isaiah and all, not excluding himself: in his own words:

"Verily I say unto you, [b]among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist.[/b]
.." (Matthew 11:11)

1.Not excluding Jesus: because, was he not born of a woman - Mary?

2.The Baptist, greater than "all", yet he performed not a single miracle! Miracles are no standards of judging truth and falsehood.

But in his childishness, the might Christian insists that Jesus is God because he gave life back to the dead. Will reviving the dead make others God too? How about other people according to the Bible???

1- Moses is greater than Jesus because he put life back into a dead stick and transmuted it from the plant kingdom to the animal kingdom by making it into a serpent (Exodus 7:10).

2- Elisha is greater than Jesus because the bones of Elisha brought a man back to life merely by coming into contact with the corpse (2 Kings 13:21).

Need I illustrate to you a catalogue of miracles? But the sickness persists - "it was God working miracles through His prophets but Jesus performed them of his own power." Again I ask you, where did Jesus get all his power from? Ask Jesus, and he will tell us:

"...All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)

"...I cast out devils by the Spirit of God then the kingdom of God is come unto you." (Matthew 12:28)

"I can of mine own self do nothing " (John 5:30)

"I with the finger of God cast out devils" (Luke 1 1:20)

I just don’t know what else to say or to show you to prove that he was not God.

Quote:Cleary Jesus and Mohammed aren't on the same plane.

True, Muhammad pbuh was the last and final messenger who came to all humanity while Jesus’ message meant for the children of Israel ONLY. 

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying GO NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans ENTER YE NOT. "But go ye rather unto the lost sheep of THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL (to the Jews only)." MATTHEW 10:5-6

"But he (Jesus) answered and said, I am NOT SENT but unto the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL (the Jews only). Mathew 15:24

Quote:If Jesus was merely a Prophet like Mohammed (who is Allah's greatest prophet) then why did Jesus do all these miracles and why did Jesus not die on earth while Mohammed did?

Jesus was saved by God from the evil plan of Jews to kill him, he was not killed as Christian think. And in his second coming he will not bring any new law or regulation but he will come to follow the last and final Prophet Muhammad pbuh and call the people who used to worship him to Islam. And the reason why Prophet Muhammad pbuh is dead because he already completed his mission Alhamdulelah and every soul is going to taste death including Jesus pbuh.

Quote:Maybe that is another topic. Wouldn't want to upset Muslimah, you are right.
I appreciate the greater understanding I have of Muslim Monotheism from your points.

Wow interesting discussion CC. thank you for bringing up these topics.

SHUUUU don’t tell Muslimah that we are off topic ;)

Salam

Wael

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