06-17-2006, 02:56 PM
Quote:Bismillah:
am sorry, but those Christians whom you say they are not, also say the same thing about you. they say Jesus is not God and anyone say he is, then he is not a true Christian.
now for people like me, how will i know which one is really 'true' Christian and which is not?
please note that the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Cerinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet of God and NOT AS GOD. Even in the modern age there are churches in Asia, in Africa, the Unitarian church, the Jehovah's witnesses, and even the majority of today's Anglican Bishops do not worship Jesus (pbuh) as God.
In the British newspaper the "Daily News" 25/6/84 under the heading <b>"Shock survey of Anglican Bishops"</b> We read
But what is a messenger of God? Is he not "God's supreme agent" ?. This is indeed what God Himself has already told us in the noble Qur'an 1400 years ago, and exactly what Jesus (pbuh) himself testified to in the Bible:
"And this is life eternal, <b>that they might know thee the only true God</b>, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
John 17:3
believe me CC, with every passing day, the most learned among the Christian community are slowly recognizing the truth and drawing closer and closer to Islam. These are not Muslims who issued this statement. These are not "liberal" Christians. These are the most learned and most highly esteemed men of the Anglican Church. These men have dedicated their whole lives to the study of the religion of Jesus, and their study has driven them to the truth which God had already revealed to them in the Qur'an 1400 years ago: That Jesus was not God. That God is not a Trinity. And that the stories of the ministry of Jesus in the Bible have been extensively tampered with by the hands of mankind.
The Church, as <b>Heinz Zahrnt </b> put it "put words into the mouth of Jesus which he never spoke and attributed actions to him which he never performed." One of those who has shown that most of what the church says about Jesus is baseless is Rudolph Augustein in his book "Jesus the Son of Man."
Another very comprehensive study of this matter can be found in the book <b>"The Myth of God Incarnate" </b> which was written by seven theologian scholars in England in 1977 and edited by John Hick. Their conclusion in this matter is that Jesus was <b>"a man approved by God, for a special role within the divine purpose, and..... the later conception of him as God incarnate ... is a mythological or poetic way of expressing his significance for us." </b>
ALSO... A University of <b>Richmond professor, Dr. Robert Alley, after considerable research into newly found ancient documents concludes that "</b>....
consider the following verses from the Bible which does not talk of any trinity. i also ask you to show me ONE SINGLE verse where it says for example, "hear o people, i am God three i one or three persons" there is NONE CC.
1."Know therefore this day, and consider [it] in thine heart, that the LORD <b>he [is] God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: [there is] none else."</b> Deuteronomy 4:39.
2."Thou shalt have <b>no other gods before me</b>." Exodus 20:3
3."For thou shalt <b>worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:</b>" Exodus 34:14
4."Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: <b>that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no savior."</b> Isaiah 43:10-11. (MEANS JESUS IS NOT SAVIOR CC, IT IS ONLY GOD THE FATHER)
5."Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; <b>I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God."</b> Isaiah 44:6
6."That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,<b> that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else."</b> Isaiah 45:6
7<b>."For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else." </b> Isaiah 45:18. (MEANS JESUS IS NOT THE CREATOR AS YOU CLAIMD)
8."Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for <b>I [am] God, and [there is] none else."</b> Isaiah 45:22
Now you should begin to ask yourself: If there was no god before or after God Almighty, then how was Jesus (pbuh) "begotten" as a god? The answer is: he was not. He was a mortal man, not a god. We even have the testimony of the majority of today's Anglican Bishopsin defense of this basic truth. If we want the testimony of a trustworthy witness then how much more trustworthy a witness shall we ever find than the majority of the most learned and respected conservative Christians of the Anglican Church?
Salam
Wael.
We just don't see it the same Wel Mel. I've answered those questions already. Your ascertation that there are Christians who say that Christ isn't God is false. They can call themselves "Christians" all they want, but the aren't Christians. The Unitarian church and Jehovah Witness churches are NOT Christian. They may claim Christ but that doesn't make them Christians.
You've said a number of times that "Muslims who don't believe in Jesus aren't Muslims." Well I bet those people would call <i>themselves</i> Muslims wouldn't they?
It's the same for Christianity.
It's the same for the Anglicans. They have clearly strayed from the truth. Going so far as to ordain Gay bishops. They may call themselves Christians all they want, but they aren't.
The "early" churches you spoke of weren't Christian either. The earliest churches were Christian. Read Paul's letters to the early churches.