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Curious Christian · (This post was last modified: 06-01-2006, 02:14 PM by Curious Christian.)

Wel Mel. THANK YOU for you well thought out answers. One of them was "copy and paste" from the internet, but I won't fault you for it....

Quote:it is strange that you quote an atheiest. do you know how much hate they carry for Christianity? will you accept that i roam around the internet and quote from an atheist about what did he say about Jesus, the Bible and Christianity?

The point is that the atheist was examining both texts subjectively. If I had posted the same exact article from a Christian you would of said something like, "Oh, the Christian hates the Quran and thus is trying to distort it's truths." I know this because you blamed the problem with the word Samaritan on Christian missionaries. I thought that posting from a non-partisian source may actually carry more weight in the discussion. And yes, I know what atheists believe about Jesus, the Bible and Christianity. I also know what Muslims say about Jesus, the Bible and Christianity and it is equally incorrect and offensive.
But, Lo, here I am trying to gain a better understanding of Muslims and what they believe.

The article about the Samaritan origen is interesting. It requires more study on my part for understanding. Thank you for revealing it to me.

Quote:Second, the Arabic word for "he turned" can be rendered as "he turned", “he has turned", or "he had turned".

That makes sense. I speak Spanish and English. I don't know much about Arabic. Many things in the Bible are also misconstrued by people's misunderstanding of original language and things can always get lost in translation. I can believe that the same about the Quran.

Quote:Thus there is no contradiction in the Qur’an when it says that man is created from sperm, dust and water. It is not a contradiction but a contradistinction.

Oh I see...if that is the case than I can see what you are saying. As a side note, in Mohammed's time people knew that sperm from a man caused a woman to be pregnant and created life. They also knew that blood, dust and water were present in our bodies. I can't give credit to Mohammed for discovering this.

Quote:The first verse does not say all his family were saved. But simply ‘his family’. The detail that his son was not saved is tackled in the longer more detailed passage; this is hardly a contradiction. Here again the principle of the unqualified statement being qualified in other parts of the Qur’an. Please also note that if you had read just a few verses further, the verses 11:45-46 strongly assert that the 'family' of Noah doesn't include his son because of his behavior. These verses emphasise that the concept of 'family' is not narrowly defined as all those with blood relations

Interesting. Where let me ask you this. The story of Noah and the flood first appeared in the Bible generations and generations before Mohommed. Why the re-telling of this already widely known and revered account by Mohammed?

Quote:this verse talking about the Christians who believe in God and WORSHIP HIM ALONE NOT HIS SON OR ANOYONE ALONG WITH HIM AND DON CALL HIM TRINITY) and the day of judgement and do good deeds. Anyone who ‘believes’ means believe without associating partners with God.

That answer makes no sense. "Christian" by definition means a follower of Christ. People who as you say, "Worship Him Alone NOT HIS SON OR ANYONE ALONG WITH HIM AND DON'T CALL HIM TRINITY" wouldn't be Christians AT ALL. Jews reject the trinity and don't worship the son will they be in Paradise? In your answer you also said upon closer observation, "Worship Him Alone NOT HIS SON", so I see you agree that Jesus IS the son of God.

NOW Concerning your post in response to what prophecies in the Quran are true......

Concerning the prophecy about the defeat of the Persians by the Romans. Yes, I cannot deny that this happened. The interesting part about your post was when you wrote this:

Quote:
Al-Zajjaj said: This is one of the verses that prove that the Qur’an is from Allah, because it is foretelling something that was yet to come, and this is something which no one could know except Allah.

The bible...as I pointed out in great detail does a lot of foretelling things yet to come. Is this too proof that the Bible's versus are from God? If not why not? You didn't address a single prophecy in the bible which I pointed out which has been confirmed by history. Why not?

Quote:
Enmity among the Christian sects until the Day of Resurrection
Allah said: “And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. So We planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection (when they discarded Allah’s Book, disobeyed Allah’s Messengers and His Orders and transgressed beyond bounds in Allah’s disobedience); and Allah will inform them of what they used to do.” [Al-Ma’idah: 14]

In Mohammed's time there was already enmity among Christian sects. The apostle Paul writes about various disagreements throughout the New Testament. This is hardly a prophecy because it was already going on. Why is there enmity amoung Christians? We, like all mankind, are sinfull and effected by the fall. Is there not enmity amoung Muslim sects???? SHIA or SUNNI???? Also...I didn't know that Muslims believed in a day of Resurrection. Tell me about it.

Quote:
Allah promised His Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, that his religion would prevail over all others.
Allah said: “It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions” [At-Tawbah: 33]

That doesn't qualify as a prophecy. How many battles in the course of history have Muslim armies lost? Look how fast the Muslim community in Africa is shrinking and how fast the Christian church is growing in Africa. Surely we won't know which religion is superior over all religions until the end of times or we perish (I of course know that Christ is the answer)

Quote:
The Conquest of Makkah
Allah says: “Indeed Allah shall fulfill the true vision which He showed to His Messenger [i.e. the Prophet saw a dream that he has entered Makkah along with his Companions, having their (head) hair shaved and cut short] in very truth. Certainly, you shall enter Al Masjid Al Haram, if Allah wills, secure, (some) having your heads shaved, and (some) having your head hair cut short, having no fear. He knew what you knew not, and He granted besides that a near victory.” [Al-Fath: 27

Was that verse written AFTER the conquest of Makkah????

Quote:
The Battle of Badr
Allah said: “And (remember) when Allah promised you (Muslims) one of the two parties (of the enemy, i.e. either the army or the caravan) that it should be yours; you wished that the one not armed (the caravan) should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the truth by His Words and to cut off the roots of the disbelievers (i.e. in the battle of Badr).” [Al-Anfal: 7]

I cannot accept this at all. You added the " (i.e. in the battle of Badr).”

Quote:This small chapter mentioned that ABU LAHAB will never become a Muslim and he will die as a disbeliever and hell will be his place.

Can you quote the actual chapter?

Thanks for the discussion again Wel Mel. I hope to keep things civil. I am learning a lot. AND like before, I didn't copy and paste one single answer.

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