03-28-2006, 05:16 PM
Bismillah
salam everyone who is attending to this thread
And welcome to the board Don
Sorry if this is a late welcome, and i think i might have missed some heated discussions here.
Well to try and just focus on your point raised earlier or let us say the reason for u to start the thread.
In brief it will be an apostate punishment:
http://www.islamsms.com/bb//index.php?...topic=1560&st=0
And also read post #28 on this thread:
http://www.islamsms.com/bb//index.php?...opic=3220&st=20
As for the punishment promised by Allah to those who reject the faith, as u can clearly see from the Ayahs u yourself quoted, the punishment is in the hereafter. As for a Muslim to accept jesus as savior, this is totally against Islamic teachings, for no one and I stress no one can shoulder someone else's sins or be accountable before Allah on behalf of someone else. No not even Prophet Mohamed salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam.
Allah may He Glorified Say:
"<b>And no bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden, and if one heavily laden calls another to (bear) his load, nothing of it will be lifted even though he be near of kin</b>. You (O Muhammad) can warn only those who fear their Lord unseen, and perform the prayer. And he who purifies himself (from all kinds of sins), then he purifies only for the benefit of his ownself. And to Allah is the (final) Return (of all)." (Quran 35:18)
As for the hadeeth that my brother Faris posted, the situation had other dimensions.
Let me post the explanation as mentioned by and forgive me because this post will be somewhat long unlike my usual.
The explanation on the footnote of this hadeeth say:
According to the narration of Ibn Abi shayba that a group of people worshiped idols in secrecy, while Tabarani stated in his book Al Awsat according to the narration of Sued Ibn Ghafla that Ali was informed about a group of people who left Islam. He invited them in, offered them food and called them back to Islam. They refused. He dug a ditch, cut their necks and dumped them into the ditch. Then he covered them with straw and lit fire. After that, he said; Allah Say the truth so is His Messenger. Abu Almozafar Al Esfany claimed in his book:” Melal and Nahl:” The group of people whom Ali burnt were a sect of Rawafed (rejectful) who claimed Ali's divinity
. They are called as Saba-eya after their leader’s last name Abdullah Ibn Saba-a the Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and created this issue. The origin of this issue might go back to what we narrated in the 3rd part of the narration of Abi Taherl Mokhles after Abdullah Bin Shuraikl `amry after his father who said: Ali was informed that there are a group of people standing by the gate of the Masjed who claim that you are their lord. He invited them and said Woe unto you, what are you claiming? They replied: you are our lord, our creator and our sustainer. Woe unto you, I m not but a servant just like all of you who eats like you eat and drink like you drink. When I obey Allah, Allah Rewards me if Allah Wants to, and if I disobey I m afraid that Allah Shall punish me. Fear Allah and change your situation. They refused. Next day, Qonbur came telling him Wallahi they are repeating what they believed and said earlier. Ali said, let them in. They insisted on their position. On the third day, he warned them before hand saying if you insist on what you are claiming, I shall kill you using the worst type of killing. They insisted on their position. Ali instructed Qonbur saying dig a ditch between the gate of the Masjed and the palace and he further said dig deep enough. He then brought the straw and lit the fire in the ditch. He warned them saying either you reject what you are claiming or I m going to throw you in this fire. They insisted on their position. He then throw them into the fire till they burnt. He commented saying: When I see an evil, I jut lit a fire and call in Qobnur.
The footnote stresses that this is a good reporting.
As u may clearly see, Ali made this judgment after a thorough investigation of the matter, inviting them back, informing them that he is not but a servant of Allah. As u may also see that they didnt only change their religion but followed a Jew who was trying to pretend that he is a Muslim then changes back just exactly as Allah Say:
"The explanation on the footnote of this hadeeth say:
According to the narration of Ibn Abi shayba that a group of people worshiped idols in secrecy, while Tabarani stated in his book Al Awsat according to the narration of Sued Ibn Ghafla that Ali was informed about a group of people who left Islam. He invited them in, offered them food and called them back to Islam. They refused. He dug a ditch, cut their necks and dumped them into the ditch. Then he covered them with straw and lit fire. After that, he said; Allah Say the truth so is His Messenger. Abu Almozafar Al Esfany claimed in his book:” Melal and Nahl:” The group of people whom Ali burnt were a sect of Rawafed (rejectful) who claimed his divinity. They are called as Saba-eya after their leader’s last name Abdullah Ibn Saba-a the Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and created this issue. The origin of this issue might go back to what we narrated in the 3rd part of the narration of Abi Taherl Mokhles after Abdullah Bin Shuraikl `amry after his father who said: Ali was informed that there are a group of people standing by the gate of the Masjed who claim that you are their lord. He invited them and said Woe unto you, what are you claiming? They replied: you are our lord, our creator and our sustainer. Woe unto you, I m not but a servant just like all of you who eats like you eat and drink like you drink. When I obey Allah, Allah Rewards me if Allah Wants to, and if I disobey I m afraid that Allah Shall punish me. Fear Allah and change your situation. They refused. Next day, Qonbur came telling him Wallahi they are repeating what they believed and said earlier. Ali said, let them in. They insisted on their position. On the third day, he warned them before hand saying if you insist on what you are claiming, I shall kill you using the worst type of killing. They insisted on their position. Ali instructed Qonbur saying dig a ditch between the gate of the Masjed and the palace and he further said dig deep enough. He then brought the straw and lit the fire in the ditch. He warned them saying either you reject what you are claiming or I m going to throw you in this fire. They insisted on their position. He then throw them into the fire till they burnt. He commented saying: When I see an evil, I jut lit a fire and call in Qobnur.
The footnote stresses that this is a good reporting.
It still has another part that explains that both women and men are equal in applying the punishment of killing in case of apostacy. The Hanafi school also explains that the hadeeth say one who changes the religion but that does not include one who changes from a kufr religion to another kufr." (Quran 3;72)
As u see the Ayah is warning us from those who pretend to be Muslims then reject it in order for others to follow them.
In such case the punishment has to be really harsh to deter those who think this way.
i m sure if u do brows the threads I gave u u will learn a lot about the matter. It will be a long read, but if u did ask to learn, it is then worth readin.
enjoy Don :)