Hello Don,
The difference between the three sects is Jesus being GOD. The Jews are happy to sit back in silence and use you as cannon-fodder against us. We on the other hand are constantly screaming out to you, the Christians,
<b> <i>'DANGER, DANGER, WILL ROBINSON, HELLFIRE APPROACHING!” </i> </b>
...and at times we get a little zealous.
<i> But that verse (16.106) says that one who denies faith willingly and ceases to believe will incur the wrath of Allah. Is it not up to Allah to punish him, if He believes that is what happened?
</i> - Don Singleton
We are ordered to obey the prophet just like all the prophets beforehand;
<b>O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end. 4.59</b>
And as re-inforcement;
<b>By the star when it set, your companion (Muhammad) is neither astray, nor misguided, nor does he speak out of his own desire. 53.1-3</b>
<i> And in the case of Abdul Rahman, he did not abandon his faith. He merely accepted Jesus Christ as his personal saviour. We are all "People of the Book" (or ahl al Kitâ Qur'an 3:64 says "O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God."
</i> - Don Singleton
Abdul Rahman has indeed abandoned his faith (as have all the christians);
<b>Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Maryam (Mary)." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb." Whoever commits shirk (joins partners with Allah), Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers. 5.73</b>
And again;
<b>Certainly they are unbelievers who say: "Allah is one of three." There is no god except One Allah. If they do not stop saying what they say, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. 5.74</b>
Do you not agree that He who you call Allah, is the same that I call God? Do we not both know Him and love Him, but just with different practices? Qur'an 2:136 says Say ye: <b>"We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them.</b>
- Don Singleton
But the christians have made a difference between Jesus and the rest of the prophets by saying he is Allah and the rest have been written up as pedophiles drunks sorcerers and adulterers to make Jesus look even more impressive. And Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them all) they call a liar and Allah they say He is either a moon god or Satan himself.
<b>Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Maryam (Mary)." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb." Whoever commits shirk (joins partners with Allah), Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers. 5.73</b>
And again;
<b>Certainly they are unbelievers who say: "Allah is one of three." There is no god except One Allah. If they do not stop saying what they say, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. 5.74</b>
<i> Do you not accept that statement from your Holy Book, and do you "make difference between one and another of them"?
</i> - Don Singleton
Of course we accept that statement. And no, we make make no difference between them. It's the Jews who say Jesus was not the Messiah and the christians who say the messiah is GOD - or part there of.
<b>Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Maryam (Mary)." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb." Whoever commits shirk (joins partners with Allah), Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers. 5.73</b>
And again;
<b>Certainly they are unbelievers who say: "Allah is one of three." There is no god except One Allah. If they do not stop saying what they say, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. 5.74</b>
and I might I add you’re outnumbered two to one on this one about Jesus being God;
<b>The Jews say: "The Christians are not on the right track," and the Christians say: "It is the Jews who are not on the right track," yet both read their Holy Books…2.113</b>
<i>Is this something (Prophets orders) that is in the Qu'ran (and if so where), or something outside of the Qu'ran? And if it is something outside of the Qu'ran, does it override the Word of Allah?</i>
- Don Singleton
We’ve covered this before.
<b>O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end. 4.59</b>
<i> We are all "People of the Book" (or ahl al Kitâ Qur'an 3:64 says "O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God."
</i>- Don Singleton
Gettin' a bit monotinous I realise, but hopefully the truth might sink in;
<b>Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Maryam (Mary)." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb." Whoever commits shirk (joins partners with Allah), Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers. 5.73</b>
And again;
<b>Certainly they are unbelievers who say: "Allah is one of three." There is no god except One Allah. If they do not stop saying what they say, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. 5.74</b>
<i> But he (Abdul Rahman) is not an atheist. He remains among the People of the Book.
</i> - Don Singleton
Correct, he's not an atheist. But he is still an unbeliever as per above; 5.73-4
<i> Qur'an 3:52 says When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
</i>- Don Singleton
The term "muslim" is from Ibraheem and means one who submits to the "Holy Unseen God of All". Truly, all the prophets since Adam have called to the same thing. This trinity stuff is a falsehood. And also the notion that Jesus is God Alone.
<b>O People of the Book! Do not transgress the limits of your religion. Speak nothing but the Truth about Allah. The Messiah, Isa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary) was no more than a Rasool of Allah and His Word "Be" which He bestowed on Maryam and a Spirit from Him which took the shape of a child in her womb. So believe in Allah and His Rasools and do not say: "Three". Stop saying that, it is better for you. Allah is only One Deity. He is far above from the need of having a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the Earth. Allah Alone is sufficient for protection. 4.171</b>
<i> Your Qu'ran may have been written in Arabic, as your Prophet understood what he was told by Allah, and our Holy Bible may have been written in Arameic, Ancient Hebrew, Greek, and Latin as God spoke to many prophets, but it was the same God that was doing the speaking.
</i> - Don Singleton
Not so Don. The NT especially is a concoction of writings from various people, over one third from Paul himself and nearly all, apart from James, by Paul’s followers. Each and every book is signed e.g.;
<i>This is the Gospel according to so and so. (30 to 100 yrs after the event).</i>
This is an account by Luke, Paul’s friend.
This is me, Paul, addressing a particular group of people.
This is James addressing that stupid idiotic heretic (Paul)
…and so on.
The Qur’an on the otherhand is signed Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem – In the name of Allah Most Beneficent, Most Merciful, 114 times in The Qur’an. And in just about every paragraph it reads or implies something like “This is Me, God, speaking to you.” The entire book is an address from Allah to mankind. In no way is it like the NT. The Gospels wouldn’t be accepted as even ‘weak hadith’ in Islamic jurisprudence.
<i> We believe that Democracy is a better way of running a country than having a dictator controlling it, but it is not a religion.
</i>- Don Singleton
In the NT, Paul explicitly orders that his followers are to turn away from The Mosaic Law and Paul also orders his followers to obey the Government of the Day whoever they are (because all govts are from God). Hence this is the religion of the Christians. You’re just not familiar with the NT.
<i> We feel that the individual should be free to select the faith he wishes to follow. Do you really think that Allah likes to have people worship him that do so out of fear that they will be killed if they do not?
</i>- Don Singleton
Allah expects you to fear the One who will send you to the Hellfire;
<b><i>And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt 10:28</i></b>
<i> And if Qur'an 3:64 is right, and if we are both People of the Book, and hence we are both believers in the same God/Allah...
</i>
Once again so the point is re-enforced;
<b>Certainly they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Maryam (Mary)." While Christ himself said: "O children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Rabb and your Rabb." Whoever commits shirk (joins partners with Allah), Allah will deny him the paradise, and the hellfire will be his home. There will be no helper for the wrongdoers. 5.73</b>
And again;
<b>Certainly they are unbelievers who say: "Allah is one of three." There is no god except One Allah. If they do not stop saying what they say, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. 5.74</b>
<i> so if you kill a Christian (and especially if you kill another Muslim), Quran 4.93 says "If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."
</i> - Don Singleton
Sorry Don, this is irrelevant to the discussion. It’s another topic entirely about civil matters. And as you already got the 'gist', christians aren't counted believers.
<i> You also seem upset with us.
</i>- Don Singleton
True.
<i> Remember Qur'an 5:82 says "You will find the people most affectionate to those who believe are those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because some of them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant."
</i>
Don, it’s most unfortunate that the muslim translators have chosen to insert the word “Christians” into the translations of the Qur’an. It’s a definite mis-interpretation of the text.
Why? I don’t know.
The word in the Qur’an is Nasaaraa – “Helpers of Allah”. I’ll not go into detail in this thread because the story is;
A Too involved
B. Too ‘hard to believe’ to a Christian - unless he is seeking the truth.
There are two groups in the N.T.;
The Nasaaraa – ‘Helpers of Allah” and ‘Paul and his followers’’. The Christians you read about in the Quran are the Nasaaraa and not the Christians – 'Paul’s lot’.
Quote:<i>"You also seem upset with us." - Don</i>
I knew I wasn't the only one who felt Feris' hostility...
That’s Faris with an “A”, Shammie. :peace: