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AhmedBahgat · (This post was last modified: 09-16-2005, 07:01 AM by Muslimah.)

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Bismillah
Praise be to Allah King of the Kings, Owner of the Universe, Creator of all that exists, I seek Allah's Close guidance and support in what I am about to put here, prayer and peace be upon His Messenger Mohamed salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam.


as salam alykom brother

AA Sister

Alhamdullelah ala Al Iman

Quote:I am quite aware of the fact that Islam didnt actually invent polygyny, I never mentioned this in my post. I rather exactly said Allah Made it lawful and put an upper limit of 4.

I believe it is a mistunderstanding in communication, what I meant that polygamy was lawful before Islam, so Islam only put an upper limit but did not make it lawful, I would say Islam confirmed its legality

Quote:Neither I am turning a blind eye on the Ayahs u posted, no way, those are the rules of the ruling brother.

sorry I did not mean any offence to you sister, however I insist that most muslim men are turing a blind eye

Quote:Now to my humble understanding, mind u i am not a scholar neither even near one, my knowledge is very limited may Allah Increase me in knowledge ameen.

Alhamdellah sister, however I can say that your knowledge is nopt limited in fact it put the knowledge of many muslim men to shame if compared, I congratulate on that and I appreciate you being down to earth, but I can say confidentlly sister that my knoweldge is not limited, Allah has blessed me with the love for reading since I was 8 years old, and since then I just eat books, I have a huge liberary sister (in two languages) in addition to what I print from the internet, my wife always mad at me from the papers scattered every where in our house, piles and piles, every year I throw about 50 kg of papers that I printed from the net and read many times, the most admired/fascinating book in my liberary is the Quran for sure, I love it to death, and I know for certain that I'm not one of those who tend to mislead the self, it can't happen, I'm a very logical man, in fact my strong belief is only based on logic, I'm not sure if I introduced my profession to the members here, I'm actually a civil structural engineer specialised in steal structures, as well I'm a computer engineer and a programmer, I'm also into mechanical and electrical engieering as a hobby, so I'm one of those humans who deploy their "Aqal" "brain" as the Quran mentioned numerous times, I never take things for granted and all my life I have to prove any thing that is in the list of my concerns or interests, there is nothing wrong about that, but some people take it the wrong way, possibly this can be another discussion between us, as I sensed that you are upset or disppointed as I read between the lines of your comment, please do not, I'm a very strong debater and possibly it reflected in the way I post without intension as I'm not debating anything with my muslim sister (you) rather I'm trying to understand from a vast variety of muslims including men and women from all countries how they see a few important subjects in Islam, like polygamy, as well like the death of Jesus pbuh, and I have many more sister, what I have is the result of intense reading not an invention whatsoever, it is also due to the fact I'm really good in the arbic language as well somehow I can use the Quran to always back me up (alhamdulellah), I learnt this blessing from Al Sharway (may Allah bless his soul), in fact on the anti Islam forum about 10 months ago I had a heated and lengthy debate with a 24 years old american who was attacking islam as a religion of terror, after spending months debating Chrisyianity and Islam and I answered all his questions with logic from the Quran, he told me with his own words on the forum that it is very satisfying to him that the Quran is answering all the questions, he ended up submitting to Islam (Alhamdullelah), another one who lives in the UK (a first cousin to my wife) he left islam, because of many issues he had and never found an answer I'm answering all his questions for about 10 months now and his arrogance is gettin down and down, I can see it, and inshaallah he will revert back to islam, he also told me that it was impressing that I only use the Quran with logic and common sense in addition to my fluecy in Arabic as well its Nahaw made him to start re-thinking (he is egyptian btw, a 43 years old man), so I can say yes I gained knowledge because I always wanted it and worked hard for it in a period spanning 25 years and still working hard, and I will not be shy to use it as well I will not be arrogant not to accept being proved wrong and concede, who has not made mistakes?, NON, and I hope Allah helps us all in minimising the mistakes we do regarding the understanding of His blessed words

Quote:The ruling was made in Quran in order to sort of establish the bases for what was already taking place at that time.

Dear sister, I understand this perfectly, in fact I composed a lengthy article (many together, as well my own words in between) to refute the argument against Islam regarding women and their treatment by Muslim men, I included every thing sister, historical data, bible/quran verses, encyclopedias comments, as well known books about marriage etc etc, I discussed the two verses again in this article but I stuck with the common belief rather my own understanding to avoid conflict with the muslim brothers, I also discussed the prophet marraiges especially his marraige to Zainab, Aysha, and Maria (may Allah bless them all), this is a very good post sister if you like I can bring it in here, there is a lot of info in there and took me weeks to put together

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Back to the Ayahs u quoted:
As far as I understand the Messenger explained the being equal in everything which include: financial support, accomodation, time, treatment, etc. BUt the emotional aspect is the hard one to fulfill equality in. This is what Allah Is Warning men about. The ability to be just in the emotional aspect. It is a warning for the difficulty of the situation which may arise. It is the option aspect Allah Is Making. In other words, this is how u know that u may or may not go into polygyny. It is not a must.

I'm sorry sister with my total respect, the verse never explicitly stated the unfairness will be emotional, it is a general statement (Lan Ta'Edelo). while the explanation by the prophet is logical and accepted, what I saw and see in life that the emotional diffrentiation is the least sin the polygomous husbands do, rather the unfairness is mostely in all the other topics you mentioned, very strange indeed.

I did not say the Quran syas, it is a must to marry only one, what I understand that polygamy in islam was restricted and conditioned by Allah, and the way it is practised by muslim men all over the world absolutely violates those conditions and restrictions, no question about it sister, but I know the truth hurts and believe me it hurts me exactly as it hurts you

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For example when Allah Ordains Salat Allah Say Establish Salah (prayer), also say: enjoined for you fasting ( i m translating from the top of my mind) just it was prescribed for those before u. NO option is given, but the rulings are made elaborate for those who have execuses, as in the ill or a traveller with an end of the Ayahs but if u fast it is better for u.
Now the ill and traveller has an option to decide according to one's condition, either to take the Divine permission and not fast and make them up later or choose to fast as the Ayahs encourages at the end.

Sure sister, and polygamy is exactly the same, it will be better to marry only one because it will make us avoid being unfair, I did not say we should only marry one, but (for me I took it as I should marry one as Allah is telling me that I will not be able to be fair between the two/three/four even if I tried hard and this will make me commit injustice so I'm going to avoid it). but again sister how many polygoumous men you saw in egypt or any other muslim country that married more than one wife for fearing not be fair with the orphans?

in my case sister ( I only saw two men in my 40 years of life so far, all the others were for only a climate change), this is an amazing fact that can not be ignored sister.

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Now take for example that Allah described Qital in Quran as being hateful, yet Did Command Muslims not to ignore it. 
Allah also warned us against the difficulty of other types of worships, I will not elaborate, I am just trying to explain as clearly as possible.

I understand you perfectly sister (100%), but I hope you understand where I'm coming from as well.

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If we apply this:
1. The Ayah would be originally helping men to avoid taking advantage of the orphans, thus may marry 2, 3 or 4.

can you please elaborate on how the multiple marriages will help men in avoiding to take advantage of the prophans?

here is 2 different understanding sister, one from a mufti on an Islamic web site, I will find the link later and post it:

the mufti said the aya means if you want to marry an ORPHANED WOMEN, and you fear to be injust with her then DO NOT MARRY HER AND MARRY ANOTHER NON ORPHANED WOMEN UP TO FOUR

here another understaniding sister from a polygomous egyptian:

the polygomous egytian said the aya means if you want to marry an ORPHANED WOMAN and you want to pay very little dowry to her and you fear that this is not just, then marry another women (up to three now) and pay the same amount of dowry that was planned to be paid for the ORPHANED WIFE, and by doing so the man is fair with the orphaned woman

I can say comfortably sister that the above two opinions are redicilous and even funny

Quote:2. Men will find difficulty in dealing justly with women specially in the emotional aspect.

I agree for sure, but the facts in life prove that polyogomous men tend to fail more in the other aspects other than the emotiional asspect.

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3. Allah Is confirming this difficulty with the option still open to either take or not.
wallahu a`lem

No question about it sister, and I see it that Allah wants us to take it if it will be as a matter of care for the oprhans so falling into the sin of never being able to treat all wives with just is justified by the more moral cause which is the care for the orphans

Quote:And I never accused u of not following Allah's words, not sure where u got this from.

I'm sorry sister, it was misunderstanding

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And if possible pls put the English translations of the Ayahs u quoted here.

Sorry again sister, but please be aware, when I respond quickly *****
sometimes, I will difinitly make sure that it will NOT be the case aften

take care and please watch for my comment about women in all religions when I bring it in, do you want it is a specific forum? please let me know

Peace

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