al-Quaida beheads American contractor on camera in the name of allah

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b>I am not sure I understand the link here Phat.</b>

any way Alhamdulelah, dont worry, Islam will continue to be the true religion and Insh aAllah we Muslims will continue trying to improve ourselves.

Sorry, I simply meant that the number of non-muslims that are engaged in conversation with real muslims is limited, and thus not many people may realize what Islam is supposed to be really! Instead of the heinous acts purported in it's name.

[wel_mel]

salam all.

John, i agree with you 100% that it was really bad thing to happen. but it was not Islam john. i hope you understand this.

salam

wael

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom

1. John if we put our religion aside, u would be here talking the way u like and getting off limits somethims. Only because we r trying hard to apply Islam that we put up with your attitude. Only because we are calling for Allah the Merciful the All Patient that we understand your situation and allow u a chance to learn.

2. If we put our religion aside we would not be posting this Ayah,:

"and kill not anyone whom Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islâmic law). " (Quran 6:151)

kill not anyone without specifying a Muslim or non Muslim, this is what Quran say. The rule is there, u break it, u receive your punishment. Period. Or do we have to post a book for you to understand.

3. If Islam was applied, those people would have certainly received their punishment. But only because Islam is not applied.

4. Phat Alhamdulelah that u see the population on this site trying to be Muslims. But see Phat, that is all we can do, is to try and be Muslims. we are not responsible about the whole Muslim population. We are not Allah. Only Allah is responsible.

5. But again, if Islam was applied, then the ruler would have been responsible to enforce the law as contained in Quran.

6. See the issue is that we can not put our religion aside. Our religion that makes us feel exactly as disgusted as you are for such incidents. According to Quran, it is not accepted. Not under any circumstances. The Ayah is clear.

[Khairan]

<i>Originally posted by JohnDoe </i><b>It says a lot that when discussing the barbaric slaughter of an innocent civilian by a group of thugs there is little in the way of response and almost nothing in the form of condemnation. However, when it comes to the killing of a known terrorist (Rantisi) the indignation is palpable.  </b>

Put your religion aside for a moment and just think that a fellow human being, someone's son and brother was kidnapped and then butchered by a bunch of thugs. The reason ? \"In retaliation for the abuse at Abu Graihb\". Oh yes, the same place Saddam Hussein used for years in his torture, rape and execution of hundreds, if not thousands of Iraqi civilians. I'll bet you, not one of these murdering pigs even wrote a strong letter of objection to Mister Hussein let alone hacked off someones head.

I agree completely.I just heard an interesting story:

Back in the early days of Islam, there was a great battle at a place called Uhud. This was the *only* battle that the Muslims, fighting under direction of the Prophet, ever lost (although the loss is disputed by later historians). In this battle, one of the Prophet's uncles, Hamza, was killed. He had embarrassed Hinda, wife of one of the merchant kings of Mecca, and she in revenge promised a slave wealth and freedom if he would kill Hamza and bring her his liver. He succeeded, and she proceeded to eat his raw liver to consummate her revenge. The story goes that when the Prophet heard this, he was torn with grief and enraged, and promised to destroy Hinda's tribe (maybe clan; I think technically they were part of the same larger tribe -- the Quraysh). However at this moment one of the Scriptural revelations, still found in the 42nd chapter of the Qur'an, was delivered to him in which God said: If you are wronged it is your right to seek redress, but it is better for you if you forgive. And with that, the Prophet gave up his vendetta.

It is actually quite amazing how many lessons there are for modern Muslims in the ancient histories, but sadly many choose only to justify self-serving actions rather than to live by their faith as they pretend to do.

cheers

[Muslimah]

:thumup: Mash a Allah Khairan

[Khairan]

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b>that is all we can do, is to try and be Muslims. we are not responsible about the whole Muslim population. We are not Allah. Only Allah is responsible.</b>

The problem is, that while that is all well and good when we speak of eternity, our immediate concerns are the here and now. You say that you are not your brother's keeper. I say that it should be an insult to your honor when a proclaimed Muslim violates the codes of the Qur'an and claims it as his God-given right. It should violate your sense of decency when men are murdered and their bodies publicly disfigured and mutilated. And if it doesn't, then you allow others to think "This is Islam."See, something that Muslims don't seem to appreciate is that the current war is very much about perceptions. America is struggling to not be perceived as a vicious oppressor, but Muslims too must struggle to not be perceived as violent, retrogressive maniacs. Part of that comes from what you choose to accept and what you choose to reject.

(hafiz)

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by Khairan </i><b>The problem is, that while that is all well and good when we speak of eternity, our immediate concerns are the here and now.  You say that you are not your brother's keeper.  I say that it should be an insult to your honor when a proclaimed Muslim violates the codes of the Qur'an and claims it as his God-given right.  It should violate your sense of decency when men are murdered and their bodies publicly disfigured and mutilated.  And if it doesn't, then you allow others to think \"This is Islam.\"</b>

(hafiz)

This is very important. Why do many muslims not feel such rage about this? Or are they more silent in general, and then I have to ask why there as well?

Do you understand the outrage that came from American people over the soldiers mistreating the prisoners?? Those people are the shame of our country! I hope everyone that is involved gets what is coming to them! They have shamed the American military, when I wished to leave Iraq in a far better state than we found it.

When I read al Jazeera, I only see a 2 people say how bad this was and how it isn't Islam. I see 6 people saying how he deserved it.

50% of the people in the USA don't even support the Iraq war. I did, I do, and I have my reasons. Everyone of those reasons if good intentioned, despite many on here that disagree with it. None involve attacking islam or wanting oil. I don't know anyone else that supports the war that is looking for one of those two things either.

[Muslimah]

<i>Originally posted by Khairan </i><b>.  It should violate your sense of decency when men are murdered and their bodies publicly disfigured and mutilated.  And if it doesn't, then you allow others to think \"This is Islam.\"</b>

See, something that Muslims don't seem to appreciate is that the current war is very much about perceptions.  

(hafiz)

as salam alykom

I fully agree on this, may be u just didnt see my implication. But if u refer to my whole post u will get it.

I will quote myself again:

If Islam is properly applied through rulers things like this wont happen, or wont be passed on ok

So the problem on the whole is that Islam is not applied. Rulers dont apply it. As for individuals, we can only strive hard to be better Muslims. I can not enforce law can I??

Again I just emphsise, no Muslim can accept what is not in Quran. That is why brother/ sister Khairan, I only have one reservation on your full agreement with John, we can not put our religion aside while looking at things can we? U simply built on our religion when typing your post, right?

[Muslimah]

and to tell u the truth, I some how lean towards what naseeha had to comment on that, how can u confirm that those were Muslims? for just saying Allah u Akbar. Just look at the timing. Bush and Rumsfeld became at a critical situation. The whole world looked so down at them. How many tapes were aired on Jazeerah for so called Bin Laden and it was not him.

well I prefer not talk this way.

I said what I have to say, Quran does not contain an Ayah that endorses murder.

[Khairan]

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b>and to tell  u the truth, I some how lean towards what naseeha had to comment on that, how can u confirm that those were Muslims? for just saying Allah u Akbar. Just look at the timing. Bush and Rumsfeld became at a critical situation. The whole world looked so down at them. How many tapes were aired on Jazeerah for so called Bin Laden and it was not him.</b>

well I prefer not talk this way.

I said what I have to say, Quran does not contain an Ayah that endorses murder.

Muslimah, the issue here is not just you. You've made it clear that you don't approve or endorse what is being done, and that is fine. I'm speaking to a societal problem, and to the implication that all Muslims need do is be responsible for themselves. I would accept this statement wholeheartedly were it not for the fact that the Muslim world so readily decries (rightfully so) the excesses of the West and of Israel against it. My point is that we -- as human beings -- should on some level all be concerned with the end of humanism. It should not matter if you are Muslim, the death of an Israeli child should disturb you. It shouldn't matter if you are American, you should be outraged when you see Iraqis abused and treated like animals.I often find Muslims to be too passive when dealing with the excesses within their own communities. America is the Great Satan, but the dictator who has oppressed your family for years is simply something you must endure silently? No, this smacks of scapegoating.

I will say though (and this is directed at phatmonky and JohnDoe) that it is unfair of Westerners to expect a coordinated response from the Muslim world. Muslim brotherhood is a fiction -- it is something that hasn't existed for nearly a millenium and a half. Muslims have been a divided people for almost all of Islam's history, to the point where different Muslim empires actually fought each other for land and influence. The dissolution of the Ottoman khilafat at the end of WWI was the last time there was even a symbol of Islamic unity present in the world. It is only in recent times, and through the interaction with the Occident as a colonizer, that Muslims have begun to believe that they should be one people. And Westerners, as they have done in so many other contexts, have racistly clumped together all Muslim groups because they could not understand the history and culture that divided them. We see a manifestation of this same problem in Iraq now, with the U.S. being utterly blind-sided by the ethnic rivalries that are occurring.

Anyway, that post was too long. The short deal is that we all need to look at ourselves long and hard and wonder how it came to this. And then we have to learn to address our own faults before we can demand that others address theirs.

cheers