What did you think of Israel assassinating Rantisi?

[Hazam'sBro]

Do you guys feel that Rantisi was a terrorist or freedom fighter? Or both? And how do you feel that Israel is now using sniper-like tactics to kill terrorist leaders in Palestine?

[unity]

its sick how isreal think that its ok for them to play god and eliminate whoever <b>they</b> think is a threat. in my opinion i think Rantisi was a freedom fighter and was trying to help the palestinian people get back what is rightfully theirs,their land ,their homes by what ever means necessary.like they say in america "a person has the right to defend their home" and in this case land as well

[Muslimah]

:thumup:

[Hazam'sBro]

May I pose a question? Have you ever thought that this form of resistance that many Palestinians have toward the Jews is futile to their cause? What exactly is the goal they attend to achieve? Do you actually think they are just going to pick up and leave one day? Or is it something more?

[Sham]

I am an Indian from South Africa and I can safely say that many of us here in SA supports the Palestinian people in their fight. The Americans and the Israels are the bullies and the terrorists. They are trying to use reverse psycology on the people of the world- trying to show that they are humane when in actual fact they are not. This tactic is not working anymore because the wool from our eyes is removed. And people are seeing what the Israelis and Americans really are. One question to the Americans - What did they do When the germans persecuted the jews in the time of Hitler? Did they go and take Germany away from the Germans. The Israelis have taken land that is not their own. What do they expect that the true owners of the land to keep quite - and if so for how long.

Here in SA the white people took the land from the Black native people and tried to make it their own. What has happened now after many years. The land is being given back to the people. Here we have done it somewhat peacefully. So if the land was or is the only issue amongst the Israel and Palestians why can they not sort this out between themselves.

As for the Americans they will use any issue and anybody to fight the muslim countries because they are afraid of a united muslim world. They are also after the wealth of certain oil producing countries. And Allah has blessed mainly the muslim countries with this commodity this is why the Americans want to criple those countries. Just think of this. If had all the muslims throughout the world united and we had the richest countries, what would happen to the rest of the world. Yeh right this is exactly what the non believers are terrified of.

So if we muslims are wise we should continue to unite peacefully and do things in the way our profit did PBUH. or atleast try. I am not saying that we should lie down and let the Israelis and Americans walk all over us, but that we should do things wisely.

[Muslimah]

<i>Originally posted by Hazam'sBro </i><b>May I pose a question? Have you ever thought that this form of resistance that many Palestinians have toward the Jews is futile to their cause? What exactly is the goal they attend to achieve? Do you actually think they are just going to pick up and leave one day? Or is it something more? </b>

It is something more Hazam's, see, we are commanded to fight in the name of Allah those who fight us, regardless of the result.

we must fight, that is it? Allah Shall do the rest in due time. If we fail to do this we will be held accountable.

can u see the point or not?

[Khairan]

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b>It is something more Hazam's, see, we are commanded to fight in the name of Allah those who fight us, regardless of the result.</b>

we must fight, that is it? Allah Shall do the rest in due time. If we fail to do this we will be held accountable.

can u see the point or not?

It's not the fight I find questionable, it's the methods. When all is said and done, these people are invoking God to justify their so-called "right" to kill innocent civilians. No matter what anyone says, these acts are wrong and unIslamic. It doesn't matter if Israel kills every last Palestinian man, woman, and child, that will not justify the killing of a single civilian. They have a right to fight for their land, but let them adhere to the rules of war that is laid down by the religion they profess to defend.On another note, people keep talking about how this "belongs" to the Palestinians. Well, the Jews believe that they are promised the very same land by their scriptures. Clearly, this is an intractable difference that can only be settled by annihilation of one side or compromise; either way, the "It was our land first" argument is bunk, and utterly useless rhetoric for approaching this issue.

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by Sham </i><b></b>

As for the Americans they will use any issue and anybody to fight the muslim countries because they are afraid of a united muslim world. They are also after the wealth of certain oil producing countries.  And Allah has blessed mainly the muslim countries with this commodity this is why the Americans want to criple those countries. Just think of this. If had all the muslims throughout the world united and we had the richest countries, what would happen to the rest of the world. Yeh right this is exactly what the non believers are terrified of.

No offense, but blaming us for your own inadequacies will do nothing.

Your countries are divided because your leaders are corrupt. You will never be able to work together because all of the power lies in too few people's hands. The population, that may want to unite, has no presence in what is happening.

Canada Venzuela, and Mexico, all mainly Christian, are the largest sources of our petroleum, despite conspiracies to the contrary.

Not everything is a zionist plot against you. I would argue that Americans are more worried about a terrorist attack than they are whether you will be united or not. Frankly, peace in the middle east would be a wonderful thing for us.

Why don't you tell the rest what else is happening right now? How black students are rioting at schools and blaming white people, stopping them from going to class. South Africa could be so great, but the leaders of a mere 10 years ago are already being forgotten.

In your analogy, you use the words "black native people". Somehow, it seems as if you think that the white people there don't have a right to be.

Perhaps you can explain to me why Israel doesn't have a right to be. For Iraq was created the last century, just like Israel. It took overland that wasn't Iraq, just like Israel. It controlled and oppressed the people on that land, just like Israel. Yet, it is the Americans who are aiding to keep the kurds from starting their own state and keep Iraq whole. Should we split up Iraq? Should Syria be required to stop IT'S illegal occupation of Lebanon??

So many questions, so few answers.

P.S. I admire anyone who looks for a peaceful resolve to a problem. It's a sure sign of real hope.

[Sham]

<i>Originally posted by phatmonky </i><b>No offense, but blaming us for your own inadequacies will do nothing.  </b>

Your countries are divided because your leaders are corrupt.  You will never be able to work together because all of the power lies in too few people's hands. The population, that may want to unite, has no presence in what is happening.

Canada Venzuela, and Mexico, all mainly Christian, are the largest sources of our petroleum, despite conspiracies to the contrary.

Not everything is  a zionist plot against you. I would argue that Americans are more worried about a terrorist attack than they are whether you will be united or not. Frankly, peace in the middle east would be a wonderful thing for us.

Why don't you tell the rest what else is happening right now? How black students are rioting at schools and blaming white people, stopping them from going to class. South Africa could be so great, but the leaders of a mere 10 years ago are already being forgotten.  

In your analogy, you use the words \"black native people\". Somehow, it seems as if you think that the white people there don't have a right to be.  

Perhaps you can explain to me why Israel doesn't have a right to be. For Iraq was created the last century, just like Israel. It took overland that wasn't Iraq, just like Israel. It controlled and oppressed the people on that land, just like Israel. Yet, it is the Americans who are aiding to keep the kurds from starting their own state and keep Iraq whole. Should we split up Iraq? Should Syria be required to stop IT'S illegal occupation of Lebanon??

So many questions, so few answers.

P.S. I admire anyone who looks for a peaceful resolve to a problem. It's a sure sign of real hope.

What is really going on SA? There was a time under the white man's rule the black people were burning down the school's. This had long since stopped. The reason for them burning down the school was a way of protesting without them having too much pressure from the police since they were underage. Now there is no need for this since they are in controll.

As for the white mans right of being here. Yes he has a right to be here, like everyone else. No higher being (I say higher being God or Allah) has sent down a child with a piece of land attached to his or her name. God/ Allah has created the land for all to live on the land equally. So if Man became greedy and tried to accquire land that is not his/hers by suppressing and robbing people then who's fault is that. Here in SA the white man robbed the natives for their land. They used the term "batter" ie. they showed and gave the native people a piece of glass and took their land in place of that. Is the land equivalent to a piece of glass. In your opinion is this fair? The white mans rule of 10 years ago is not forgotten because the black people are now doing exactly what the white man has done. It is just reverse apartheid. Good or bad - Well this is debatable.

I can not explain to you about Israel and their right to be there because with all the nonsence that the media prints out the truth is always hidden. The focus is always on the peripheral issues and not on the truth. They blow these outside issues out of proportion and try to take away the focus of the people from the real issues. If Israel has a right to the land so does the Palestinians. So why not give the Palestians equall rights to that country. Why not adopt the policy of "live let live"

As for "leaders being corrupt" show one leader that is not. It is like the "pot calling the kettle black". Do you know the saying "To be a politician you have to be two faced" In my opinion it is true saying. I urge you not to mix politics with religion. This is the fault of many people. What the americans are trying to do is brainwash the people into thinking that the "terrorism means islam" and that is what they are continously trying to portray. And this is wrong. Islam does not promote terrorism but it certainly does promote that people should not be oppressed. When I used the "land issue" here in SA and compared it with the land issue in Israel I was trying to draw attention to the way the Americans dealt with the two issues and to show you how differently the world perceived it. Yet it was the same thing the question of "Land". When the black people rose up against the white people, did the Americans jump in and now say that the blacks here are "Terrorists". All of these liitle things that happen in different countries are all treated differently. But there is one thing that is common and that is America. America is an instigator for many things and they manipulate the other government if they are going to gain from it (in whatever way ie. materially or financially). So I urge all to look deeper into these matters and see what these countries have to gain by all of this.

I will re-emphasise that Religion must not be mixed with Politics.

And that Islam is not a terrorist religion that the Israel's and Americans are trying to make Islam out to be.

Just a piece of information. I was at the JFK airport at the time of the Sept 11 bombing. I was having first hand experiance of the whole episode. The common expressions and comments from the people was " these bloody terrorist- these bloody Islamic terrorists- these bloody muslims". What was my reaction to this how was I supposed to react. I am a muslim but I am no terrorist . I have nothing to do with that bombing. So why is my religion being attacked? You see what I mean. You can not paint everyone with one brush.

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by Sham </i><b>1> The white mans rule of 10 years ago is not forgotten because the black people are now doing exactly what the white man has done. It is just reverse apartheid. Good or bad - Well this is debatable.</b>

2>I can not explain to you about Israel and their right to be there because with all the nonsence that the media prints out the truth is always hidden. The focus is always on the peripheral issues and not on the truth.  They blow these outside issues out of proportion and try to take away the focus of the people from the real issues. If Israel has a right to the land so does the Palestinians. So why not give the Palestians equall rights to that country. Why not adopt the policy of \"live let live\"

3>As for \"leaders being corrupt\" show one leader that is not. It is like the \"pot calling the kettle black\". Do you know the saying \"To be a politician you have to be two faced\" In my opinion it is true saying. I urge you not to mix politics with religion. This is the fault of many people. What the americans are trying to do is brainwash the people into thinking that the \"terrorism means islam\" and that is what they are continously trying to portray. And this is wrong. Islam does not promote terrorism but it certainly does promote that people should not be oppressed. When I used the \"land issue\" here in SA and compared it with the land issue in Israel I was trying to draw attention to the way the Americans dealt with the two issues and to show you how differently the world perceived it. Yet it was the same thing the question of \"Land\". When the black people rose up against the white people, did the Americans jump in and now say that the blacks here are \"Terrorists\". All of these liitle things that happen in different countries are all treated differently. But there is one thing that is common and that is America. America is an instigator for many things and they manipulate the other government if they are going to gain from it (in whatever way ie. materially or financially).  So I urge all to look deeper into these matters and see what these countries have to gain by all of this.

4>I will re-emphasise that Religion must not be mixed with Politics.  

5>And that Islam is not a terrorist religion that the Israel's and Americans are trying to make Islam out to be.  

1>It's not debateable at all. It's wrong. It was wrong then, it's wrong now. You admit it was wrong then. You follow it with a post about double standards. Surely you then realize how wrong it is now. Are the teachings of Mandela lost??

2>Well I can explain to you about it. Israel is a recognized state. It exists, and therefore, just as any other country it has the right to exist. As does Palestine!

I am sorry for jumping to the conclusion that you too wished for the end of Israel, as many on this board have expressed.

I understand the arguments on what should be done, what borders should be set, etc. However, anyone who is says "Israel has no right to be" is incredibly biased, and refuses to look at what a country even is!

3>You see though, I am not blaming you for it. I am saying that your goals cannot happen so long as your populous cannot control who is in government. Corruption is one thing. Corruption with NO accoutability is another.

Now, what I find amazing is that you claim we are TRYING to associate muslims with terrorist. We have spent MILLIONS educating people that those in the middle east, and elsewhere are just like us and trying to understand the culture. We teach this in schools. We are told "Al quada is just a small group of extremist and not all muslims are like this". I see a public service announcemenet on this subject every week reminding me to be tolerant.

If you want a common link, the common link is Islam used as a reason for killing civilians.

Kenya

Perle.

Bali.

9/11

Spain.

Chechnya

Iraq

And now Nick Berg.

All of them people claiming these horrendous acts in the name of Islam. And that is only since the 9/11 attacks!

When our soldiers broke our laws in our name, we stopped it. We are punishing them, we apologised, we put new means in place to avoid this in the future. What has the Muslim world done to condemn all of these attacks? When Pakistan and Saudi Arabia arrest terrorist, the governments are labeled to be traitors for helping us.

This is how things are seen on the outside. Dont' assume my questions are accusatoins please. You say I can't paint everyone with a single brush- I wouldn't be on this board if I was looking to do that.

4>Religion is ingrained in Muslims country politics. Hence, the reason they are considered "muslim countries". Sharia law, full fledged theocracies, clerics choosing what their people will and won't do. It's all twisted together. And while I agree that it shouldn't be the case, it is! It's undeniable!

5> Again, so amazing.