Can al-Qaa'edah be defeated?

[Purgetroy]

You call your muslim brothers as extremists and kaffirs...

no. i only call you an extreamist. do the math.

... and you justify the Kufr of the Kaffirs and say they just want to have a family and settle down.

when did i justify the Kufr of anyone? quote me and tell me where you concluded that.

what you said was, "Can they [the kuffar] extinguish the light of Allah?" and I replyed by saying, "who the hell told you that they want to extinguish the light of Allah?" alot of them dont even care. all they want is to live in peace. what do you think they are? aiming their whole lives to fight Islam? why? whats the point when they are in the most developed nations in the world? when their lives are secured by their government and they can live a happy free life? why do you think that every non-muslim is hungry for muslim blood? why cant you just accept that they might want peace only. unlike you who enjoys watching them die like a mad psychopath.

[Purgetroy]

and yes i have one jize2 left to finish the Qoran.

[radiyah]

Alsalam 'alaykom,

I would like to state my opinion here about al-Qaueda, before I used to like Usama bin laden and proud of his deeds, but after 9/11(this put muslims in america in a very bad situtation,one american muslim once said on a tv intreview" this retarded us 10 years backwards, this is not a good deed, this is not jihad"),so u see this is nothing to be proud of and this is not Islam, killing innocent people, this is not Jihad, Jihad is when u fight army against army, men against men, not some lunatics hijakking a plane and blowing it into buildings and killing innocent people( and there were muslims there as well), once prophet Mohammad in one of his battle, I don't recall the name now, saw a kafir woman that was killed, he was very angry and asked his sahaba not to ever do that again, the Jihad in Islam, yes is a must, but the main reason for jihad is to spread Islam by kindness and good words, don't u remember Sulh(treaty) Alhudaybiya, when they wanted to go to omra for the first time, then the kufar asked them to go back and come back next year, and they made a treaty between them and the prophet agreed, the sahaba were mad, how we come and not go to omra they wanted to fight, but prophet Mohammad knew more than them he is more wise(God has ordered him of course and guided him), he wanted to spread Islam in peace time, and that what happened, after that thousands embraced Islam from all over the peninsula and I think u know that. So the main purpose of jihad is calling people for Islam, even when fighting he ordered them to preach kufars if they submitted to Islam that is a great triumph if he did not then fight. But now it is peace time isn't it better to spread islam and show how that it is a relegion of peace instead of blowing yourself up and killing yourself and other innocent people on the way in which u will be asked by Allah allmighty for their blood on the day of judgement.

So think about it Abu Dujanah, Islam is now spreading, many are converting to Islam all over the world, so help be one of those who spread it by good preaching and show that Islam is not a terorrising relegion on the contrary, it is peace and tranquility.

We all love martrdom, we love to die as mortars, but in the right way, under a strong Islamic governement, that is strong in its education, culture, and forgivness and leniency in treating with other cultures, that is how Islam was spread before and shall spread again Insha' Allah. May Allah Allmighty show us the right path, and forgive us for our sins.

In the Name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful.

.190. And fight in the Way of Allâh those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)]

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. surrat Al-Baqara

So as u see we are not to transgress, only fight those who fight us(army against army. and in the second verse it says Al-Fitnah is worse than killing, I know that this verse is about kufar that they make fitna, but on seeing it today, isn't al Qaeda making fitna, wasnt it because of them that America invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because of Al-Qaeda deeds, In Saudi Arabia, the scholars who called for military jihad now repented, and said they were sorry for what happened in Riyadh, they were interviewed by scholar Ae'd AlQarny,so even those who preached for it are now repenting because they did not expect this to happen, this is a big fitna which we should not be part of, instead be patient educate ourselves and our children, build our nation to have higher morals until we build a strong Islamic nation with strong beleifs and pious men and women. So consider this one of your duties to be a DAI'YA for Islam, and not a killer of innocent people.

Wa Jazakum Allah kheer Wa assalam a'laykom wa rahmat Allah wa barrakatuh.

[Abu Dujanah]

as-Salaamu 3alaykum,

My Sister in Islam you said "killing innocent people, this is not Jihad", i ask you and others once again. Who are the innocent people you talk about????

Please refer to the fatwaa of Shaykh Hamood bin 'Uqlaa ash Shu'aybi

And again i dont want to go into detail regarding killing women in jihad, as i said before the prohibition is general but there are circumstances that is allowed to kill them, and this is proven from the Sunnah, as well as the Ijmaa3 {Consensus} of the Scholars.

Sister you need to update your Fiqh al Waqia {the Fiqh of current events}, please, its really important, no point talking about something you dont know.

You said "But now it is peace time", that really made me sad, Ya Allah.

Next i guess you would be advocating for peace treaties now.

And you really believe that Al-Qaa'edah {i.e the Mujahideen) are the ones who are making Fitnah???? Jihaad is a fitnah? This discussion is really getting poor now.

As for your comments regarding the scholars making tawbah.

RESPONSE:

It is the Ijmaa3 of the scholars that a person who's coerced, his words are not accepted. As long as these scholars are in prison and there is no way to prove that they have taken these positions as belief.

Its obvious the regime forced them to say that, and there are pictures which indicates some type of torture, drugging, etc. Also, there retractments are VERY exaggerated.

You overlooked the fact that they are in a Taaghoot's jail who is known to torture. You overlooked the fact that their repentance included obvious falsehood (which they are excused for, In Shaa' Allaah) so there is no way it is a real repentance.

I really think that Salmaan, 3aa'id al-Qarnee and the rest are being closer and closer to the government.

Remember a few months ago, Nayef (the interior minister) had a conference which he invited a select few number of scholars to discuss how to solve the problems of extremism in the peninsula (he meant Jihaad). Guess who he invited? Rabee' and some of his crew AND Salmaan, Safar and some of their crew! This was advertised on the their website!

May Allaah keep all our hearts firm on the truth.

First it was Sh. Naasir al-Fahd that was interviewed (interogated)by 3aa'id al-Qarnee on Saudi TV, declaring his 'public repentance' and recanting all his Fataawaa on Jihaad or Takfeer. Similar statements were made by Sh. 'Alee, but like I said before we have to excuse them because of the possibility of Ikraah (which I don't doubt).

[Abu Dujanah]

<i>Originally posted by Purgetroy </i><b>no. i only call you an extreamist. do the math.</b>

when did i justify the Kufr of anyone? quote me and tell me where you concluded that.

what you said was, \"Can they [the kuffar] extinguish the light of Allah?\" and I replyed by saying, \"who the hell told you that they want to extinguish the light of Allah?\" alot of them dont even care. all they want is to live in peace. what do you think they are? aiming their whole lives to fight Islam? why? whats the point when they are in the most developed nations in the world? when their lives are secured by their government and they can live a happy free life? why do you think that every non-muslim is hungry for muslim blood? why cant you just accept that they might want peace only. unlike you who enjoys watching them die like a mad psychopath.

يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُطْفِؤُواْ نُورَ اللّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَيَأْبَى اللّهُ إِلاَّ أَن يُتِمَّ نُورَهُ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ

They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allah's Light (with which Muhammad SAW has been sent - Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafiroon (disbelievers) hate (it). (Surah at-Tawbah, Ayah 32)

You said they are the "most developed nations in the world", in what ways are they 'most developed'? Please tell me.

Purgetroy, you believe they want peace? You really believe this?

[radiyah]

Please refer to the fatwaa of Shaykh Hamood bin 'Uqlaa ash Shu'aybi

Who is this scholar I never heard of him before, I don't update my Islam according to scholars that accept violence, and jihad is a must I said but under strong Islamic governement, not under unorganized groups, if u do not accept prophet Mohammad's policy in spreading Islam, then what kind of policy is that u accept, mere human beings that call for violence.

This is a fatwa from Ibn Othaymeen, wether u like it or not it is up to u

http://www.4quran.net/vb/showthread.php?s=...d=3063#post3063

And the saudi governement has served Islam a lot, and changed its policy with treating with those people, weather it is taghot or not that is up to Allah to judge it not us. We can pray for them to be on the right path instead of condemning them, what started the fitna in the islamic umma in the first place, wasnt it because of the khawarej who started it in the first place who did not accept the leading of the Imam which by the way was fed by a jewish man called Abdallah ibn sabba, and then KHALEEFAT RASOOL ALLAH.Othamn bin Affan was killed.

My Sister in Islam you said \"killing innocent people, this is not Jihad\", i ask you and others once again. Who are the innocent people you talk about????

Innocent people that were killed on 9/11, innocent people killed in riyadh, innocent people killed in turkey. In palestine that is a totally different issue, there they have the right to protect themselves, this I totally agree with u. but others I am sorry i do not.

Sister you need to update your Fiqh al Waqia {the Fiqh of current events}, please, its really important, no point talking about something you dont know.

I have studied fiqh and still studying

and I know what I am talking about,

if I dont study what u want then I am

ignorant, May Allah have mercy on us.

You said \"But now it is peace time\", that really made me sad, Ya Allah.Next i guess you would be advocating for peace treaties now.

And you really believe that Al-Qaa'edah {i.e the Mujahideen) are the ones who are making Fitnah???? Jihaad is a fitnah? This discussion is really getting poor now.

Yes peace time because u can spread Islam easily everywhere without violence or killing , Don't think that I support the usa or any other goverenements, nor do americans accept the policy of Bush as well, but u r free to spread your relegion freely, so instead of killing people invite them to Islam, and I think u know that many marines and soldiers embraced Islam in saudi, kuwait and Iraq so isnt this a victory for Islam?

I did not say Jihad is fitnah, I said what is happening now is fitnah, how many groups of Islam there are now, count them, wasn't this what prophet Mohammad said that will happen, each wants to fight in his own way, I said Jihad is accepted but under one Islamic governement which we pray that will rise soon.

And yes it is getting poor because it is not up to your expectations, it is either your way or it will become poor.

I will not answer again because it seems that u r not ready to accept anybodys opinion here, u just want to impose your own, may Allah have mercy on us.

And I would like to tell u that in this forum we lead people to the right path teach them about Islam, but if u want to show violence here I don't c that u r serving Islam in any way. I hope that this debate will stop , as said before by sister Muslimah we are not here to debate or call for violence, but to teach and help others about Islam.

May Allah have mercy on us.

[Abu Dujanah]

O My Lord.

[Purgetroy]

They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allah's Light (with which Muhammad SAW has been sent - Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafiroon (disbelievers) hate (it). (Surah at-Tawbah, Ayah 32)

i realy would check deeper on that surah. my guess would be that Allah is talking about a certain people in a certain event...i'll look into that when i have more time.

why i think so? well because if the verse is to be taken alone in that context, then it realy contradicts the other verses I gave.

You said they are the \"most developed nations in the world\", in what ways are they 'most developed'? Please tell me.

oh great. so now your telling me that you believe the arab world is more developed from the west? pride in excess could be foolishness you know.

well to answer your question, the west is more developed in <b>almost</b> every aspect of life. they are more developed in technology and science, they have MUCH better welfare (in its economic defenition), human value is worth more in their lands. and dont argue about human value, i have an uncle in prison in syria for the last 20+ years, we dont even know if he is alive or dead. him and thousands of people like him have disapeared under Hafiz Al-Assad's rule. his son is not much better. and i hear that that problem is not only in syria, but in alot of other arab countries.

if these things happen in the west, then for sure they are VERY rare. do you know about the riots in syria against the US last year? well my aunt was in it. you know what she said? the whole thing was planned by the government. heck, riots in syria? impossible if the government havent planned it, or else all the rioters would disapear. we are like sheeps herded by the governments there. not even humans.

where are you from? did you ever go to the west?

[Abu Dujanah]

Asalamu Alykum

I never said anything about the arab world, i just asked you the question in what ways are they developed, so before you assume im a lover of the arab world one needs to get the facts right.

Im from the uk.

You see you gave the example of al-Assad, and there are many more kaffir leaders (mubarak, fahd, etc) who are doing what he is doing and even worse, i have heard many things about what they do to the scholars, mujahideen and ordinary muslims who dont support their tyranny and kufr, indeed what they do is evil to the core, and words wouldnt be enough to discribe what they do, may Allah curse them and make them the lowest of the low, ameen. And you know what there are people in this world who are muslims and yet they defend these leaders and many among them call king fahd the ameer of the muslims....this is really sad...and Allah guides who He wills, oh Allah help and protect us and give the victory to the Mujahideen, ameen

Let me make it clear i hate them {i.e these leaders and their armies and those who support them} for the sake of ALLAH.

I can take issues with you whether or not the west are more developed but now aint the time or place.

[phatmonky]

I have not read all of these replies yet, so pardon me if I repeat somethign that has already been said.......

Al-Qaeda is NOT performing Jihad in the islamic sense, according to my reading, for the Quran calls for explicitly for Jihad WITHOUT the killing of women and children. No where in the Quran does it suggest Jihad to be waged with a disregard to other muslims, or innocent's lives.

Killing of Iraqis with car bombs, turks with car bombs, civilians at Italian, American, and English Embassies, bombing of UN PEACEKEEPERS.......this is not Jihad as I am told. This is a abombination that cloaks itself in a religion.