Family 'proud' of suicide bomber

[Soledad]

the least you can do is show a little bit of respect to our brother Soledad. At least he had the guts and open mindedness to come to an islamic forum and speak sensibly with all the nonsense the western media is shedding on its people.

Purge, thanks for your kind words, by the way, I'm a woman Soledad is a Spanish name and it means 'Solitude'.

Abu Dujanah, I don't have to be a Muslim to notice that you are what I call an 'intelectual' in your own religion, you quote more from scholars than the Quran itelf, now in my religion we have scholars too and I read their books but I don't take it as 'doctrine' in any way, I take it as just opinions of men who are well versed in the Scriptures but definetly will not take the place of my Prophet.

I came to this Muslim forum to discuss maturely different issues that affect our lives and also to find out why there is such a misinterpretation of the Quran and the Muslims in general. I have a message board where we have also a Muslim section where most Americans talk pretty bad about the Islam in general and I try my best to show that there is nothing wrong with the religion but some people like you who are very hard-hearted who interpret the religion in another light but also profess to be 'religious' and follow Allah...did you ever heard the phrase 'Your actions speak so loud that I cannot hear what you're saying'.

Latter Day SaintsLOL............OK

What's so funny about my religion? Did I laugh at yours? you're really childish or cruel I must say. How old are you by the way?. Only a very young mind would laught at somebody else religion. Where are you living at the present time by the way?

Your more stupid then i thought you would be,

You have NO RIGHT to call Purgetroy 'stupid', you're so arrogant, full of yourself and definetly NOT a representation of the Islam faith. I come in contact with Muslims on a daily basis and your attitute is one of an extremist, of a hater, of somebody who knows everything and in fact doesn't know anything but...oh yes...profess love to Allah. What a hypocresy!.

[Purgetroy]

Imam Malik used the following hadeeth as general evidence to the illegality of killing women and children; Ibn 'Umar (radiallaahu 'anhuma) said:

"A woman was found killed in one of the battles of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alayhee wa sallam), so the Prophet banned the killing of women and children." [Narrated by AlJama'ah (i.e. Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, At Tirmidhee) except for An Nasaa'ee, and Abu Dawood]

Sa'ab bin Jathamah (may Allah be pleased with him) reported from that the Prophet was asked about the people in the homes of Mushrikun (Polytheist) when they are attacked at night and their women and children are affected, he said: \"they are part of them\".

yes, this is a special case. where you have two choices. either to stop the attack of the muslim army (which would be dangeruos) or carry out the plan and any unintentional killing of woman and children cannot be stoped unfortunatly. as long as it is unintentional.

but rampaging into a land and when you have a choice of sparing the lives of the inocent civilians yet you refuse to spare them and you kill the woman and children, then THAT is murder.

So, this Hadith shows that women, children and all those the killing of whom is forbidden, when they are separate, it is permissible to kill them when they are mixed up with the fighters and it is not possible to separate. This is because they had asked the Prophet about the case which is \"attacking at night\", in which case it is not possible to differentiate, and he permitted them because \"things may be allowed when they occur along the way but be forbidden when separate\".

exactly what i was saying.

Ibn Hazm, commenting on the Hadith that \"Banu Quraidah were paraded before the Prophet, and he ordered the killing of all those who had attained puberty\", said: \"this is a general ruling from the Prophet, since he did not leave out an old man, a merchant, a farmer or any other person; this was related from him with genuine Ijmaa' (Al-Muhallaa vol. 6 p. 299)

who narrated the hadith? bukhari? muslim?

Next you gona say dont attack the army becuase the soliders are doint their job..........LOL

no i didnt say that nor will i say that. the police's job is to protect the civilians from themselves. and civilians should not be attacked by us (at least not intentionals). therefor, non of them pose a threat on a muslim army. the only threat comes from the enemy's army and government.

Brother wake up, the enemy is attacking the muslim, they are raping our women, killing the scholars and imprisoning the muslims, and you are telling me the kuffar want peace........COME ON, WHAT PLANET YOU LIVING IN????

i am living in a planet where God has told us to be patient. a planet where each man has an individual brain. where you should wake up and look around and see that not all non-muslims are waiting to eat you. there have been alot of riots around the world against the attack on iraq. just look at how much security Bush had when he visited the UK. because ALOT of the BRITISH, WESTERN, CHRISTIAN <b>PEOPLE</b> were against the Bush's war. each man has an individual brain to think for. just because a government of a nation are an enemy doesnt condemn that whole nations population as the enemy.

take einstien for example. he was a jew and look at what he said:

"My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain -- especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state."

Albert Einstein

Einstein is not only a Jewish Genious. He also was opposed to Israel! but in your mentality. he is still the enemy that should be killed.

Yes im laughing at them Kuffar, got a problem with that? Look how evil they are and yet they are so arrogant.

actualy, yes i do. it shows your ignorance and rudness. they are not evil, only you have been brainwashed to believing they are.

or btw its Quran and not Qoran.

and now, here comes a man that wants to discuss spelling corrections. have you run out of arrguments or are you trying to show your superiority in Grade 3 class?

[Soledad]

That's another thing I don't understand of people like you, just because a fellow Muslim do not agree with all the shed of innocent blood he is called a lover of the west side *shaking head*

[Purgetroy]

That's another thing I don't understand of people like you, just because a fellow Muslim do not agree with all the shed of innocent blood he is called a lover of the west side *shaking head*

i am not offended what so ever by that remark. on the contrary, i take pride in it. i wish every easterner would love the west someday. and every westerner would love the east. when that happens, we will know that people have become openminded. when that happens, people like Abu Dujana wont exist.

btwm sorry for calling you a "he" Soledad.

[Soledad]

i wish every easterner would love the west someday. and every westerner would love the east. when that happens, we will know that people have become openminded. when that happens, people like Abu Dujana wont exist.

You're so right. I wish that this come become true someday. I think religious tolerance is so important in our lives, I have traveled to several countries and I am very open-minded about their cultures and religions. Only when we think we know everything, we lose humility and cannot be sympathetic about other's people feelings, we become a hard people who give more importance to our own knowledge than God's (Allah's) knowledge. We should be so careful of false pride, can take us down and make us an unhappy people. I'm really glad to meet several Muslims like you Purgetroy here on this board and here where I live in the Caribbean.

[Abu Dujanah]

Do you think that i believe we have to kill every woman and children on the street if i see them ?

I will clarify, if a woman who is in the army with the men who are also fighting against the Mujahideen i believe you can kill this woman becuase protecting your deen, your life, your honour, your family and your wealth is a necessity and hence it is protected in Islam.

The Hadeeth shows that women, children and all those the killing of whom is forbidden, when they are separate, it is permissible to kill them when they are mixed up with the fighters and it is not possible to separate. This is because they had asked the Prophet about the case which is "attacking at night", in which case it is not possible to differentiate, and he permitted them because "things may be allowed when they occur along the way but be forbidden when separate".

And yes the Prophet forbade killing women but there are exceptions and the Mujahideen are using these exceptions.

[Abu Dujanah]

<i>Originally posted by Soledad </i><b>That's another thing I don't understand of people like you, just because a fellow Muslim do not agree with all the shed of innocent blood he is called a lover of the west side *shaking head* </b>

You need to get your facts right. He was talking about the slaves, he says that is a thing of the past.

Little does he realise that Islam allows us men to have slave girls.

[Purgetroy]

Now your post is making more sense. when it is not possible to fight without killing a woman or child which is in the way, then yes, it is ok to kill them. otherwise this is strictly forbiden. now keep that in mind as i reply to your quote:

And yes the prophet forbade killing women but there are exceptions and the Mujahideen are using these exceptions.

the Mujahideen you are refering to I suppose are the suicide bombers. tell me, was the restaurant attacked by the suicide bomber in the middle of a military faculty? i dont think so. was there an army inside the restaurant? i dont think so. now reread my first paragraph in this post and tell me if the suicide bombing done on civilian targets are Islamicaly acceptable.

Little does he realise that Islam allows us men to have slave girls.

from this link: http://islamicweb.com/begin/myth11.htm

As for slavery, Islam is unique among the `religions' in its close attention to the peaceful removal of this practice. Before the advent of Islam, slavery was widespread all over the world. The Messenger of Islam taught us that freeing slaves was a great deed in the sight of Allah. From the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Sahih Bukhari, we find:[3:46:693] Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, \"Whoever frees a Muslim slave, Allah will save all the parts of his body from the (Hell) Fire as he has freed the body-parts of the slave.\" Said bin Marjana said that he narrated that Hadith to `Ali bin Al-Husain and he freed his slave for whom `Abdullah bin Ja'far had offered him ten thousand Dirhams or one-thousand Dinars.

Also from the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Malik's Muwatta, we find:

[38:9:15] Narrated Aisha Ummul Mu'minin: The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, was asked what was the most excellent kind of slave to free. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, answered, \"The most expensive and the most valuable to his master.\"

The Creator has also made it easy for slaves to gain their freedom. From the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Sahih Bukhari, we find:

[3:46:704] Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, \"Whoever frees his portion of a common slave should free the slave completely by paying the rest of his price from his money if he has enough money; otherwise the price of the slave is to be estimated and the slave is to be helped to work without hardship till he pays the rest of his price.\"

The condition of slavery is very different in Islam than the harsh conditions imposed by non-Muslims or disobedient Muslims. From the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Sunan Abu-Dawud, we find:

[41:4957] Narrated Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet (saw) said: None of you must say: \"My slave\" (abdi) and \"My slave-woman\" (amati), and a slave must not say: \"My lord\" (rabbi or rabbati). The master (of a slave) should say: \"My young man\" (fataya) and \"My young woman\" (fatati), and a slave should say \"My master\" (sayyidi) and \"My mistress\" (sayyidati), for you are all (Allah's) slave and the Lord is Allah, Most High.

Also from the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Sahih Bukhari, we find:

[3:46:721] Narrated Al-Ma'rur bin Suwaid: I saw Abu Dhar Al-Ghifari wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a cloak. We asked him about that (i.e. how both were wearing similar cloaks). He replied, \"Once I abused a man and he complained of me to the Prophet. The Prophet asked me, `Did you abuse him by slighting his mother?' He added, `Your slaves are your brethren upon whom Allah has given you authority. So, if one has one's brethren under one's control, one should feed them with the like of what one eats and clothe them with the like of what one wears. You should not overburden them with what they cannot bear, and if you do so, help them (in their hard job).\"

As a result of the teachings of Islam, slavery was almost completely eradicated from many areas of the Muslim world, peacefully and without bloodshed.

[Abu Dujanah]

Forget about what is happening in israel for one minute. You havent got the full facts about that situation, you only have the media to tell you what happened in that particular situation, so therefore you cant say anything.

So generally as i said we are not allowed to kill women, children, old men and women etc........But for every principle are exceptions.

[Abu Dujanah]

Also the Hadeeth you quoted about slaves, where is the prohibition????

Did you get the Sharh of it i.e from Fath Al-Bari etc?

Do you want me to quote from the Quran about this issue?