That is why I prefer not to discuss 9/11

[Muslimah]

9/11 was a Hoax

The American government killed its own people

by John Kaminski

Opposed by everyone in the world who was not bought off, the illegal invasion of Iraq was undertaken for many reasons — the imminent replacement of the dollar by the euro as the world's primary currency, the tempting lure of untapped oil reserves, the desire to consolidate U.S./Israeli military hegemony over a strategically vital region — but the most important reason was to further obscure questions about the awesome deception staged by the American government that has come to be known as 9/11.

9/11 was a hoax. This is no longer a wild conspiracy assertion; it is a fact, supported by thousands of other verifiable facts, foremost of which are:

The attacks of 9/11 COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED without the willful failure of the American defense system. In Washington, Air Force pilots demanded to fly but were ordered to stand down. Yet instead of prosecuting the president and military leaders for this unprecedented dereliction of duty, military leaders were promoted and the president was praised for presiding over a defense system that suspiciously failed the most crucial test in its history. None of the deaths would have happened without the deliberate unplugging of America's air defenses.

Planes that lose contact with control towers are usually intercepted by fighter jets inside of ten minutes, as the incident with the golfer's plane a few months earlier so clearly demonstrated. Yet on 9/11, the jetliners that struck New York were allowed to proceed unmolested for more than a half-hour, and the plane that supposedly crashed in Washington was not intercepted for more than an hour and forty minutes after it was widely known that four planes had been hijacked.

The twin towers could not have collapsed as a result of burning jet fuel. Most of that fuel was consumed on impact. In the south tower, most of the fuel was spilled outside the building. Heat caused by burning jet fuel does not reach temperatures needed to melt steel. What does stand out as particularly suspicious and still unexplained is that fires raged out of control beneath THREE of the collapsed towers for ONE HUNDRED DAYS, clearly indicating the presence of some kind of substance utilized in the demolition of the structures.

The Twin Towers did not fall because of plane impacts or fires. Most likely explosives were placed on structural supports in the towers (as was done in Oklahoma City), and these controlled implosions snuffed out the lives of three thousand people.

FBI Director Robert Mueller insisted officials had no idea this kind of attack could happen when in fact the FBI had been investigating the possibility of EXACTLY this kind of attack for almost TEN YEARS. Numerous previous attempts at using planes as weapons, intimate knowledge of terror plans called Project Bojinka, and knowledge of suspicious characters attending flight schools who were being monitored by the FBI make his utterance a clear lie on its face.

In the weeks before 9/11, the U.S. received warnings from all over the world that an event just like this was about to happen, but FBI investigations into suspected terrorists were suppressed and those warnings were deliberately disregarded.

The names of the alleged hijackers, all ostensibly Muslims, were released to the public only hours after the attacks, despite Mueller saying we had no knowledge this would happen. This is an impossible twist of logic. If he didn't know of a plan to strike buildings with planes, how would he know the names of the hijackers? Various artifacts were discovered in strategic places to try to confirm the government's story, but these have all been dismissed as suspicious planting of evidence. Since that time several names on that list have turned up alive and well, living in Arab countries. Yet no attempt has ever been made to update the list. And why were none of these names on the airlines' passenger lists?

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[Muslimah]

Much like the invasion of Iraq, the anthrax attacks were designed to deflect attention from unanswered 9/11 questions in the patriotic pandemonium that followed the tragedy. In addition to making large amounts of money for the president's father and his friends from the hasty sale of inefficient drugs to a panicked populace, the investigation into these killings was abruptly halted when the trail of evidence led straight to the government's door, and has not been reopened. The anthrax attacks also amped up the climate of fear and deflected attention from the passage of the government's repressive Patriot Act.

The Patriot Act was presented in the days after the tragedy supposedly as a response to it, yet it was clear that this heinous act, drafted to nullify provisions for freedom in the U.S. Constitution, was put together long before 9/11. In addition, testimony by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) revealed that most members of Congress were compelled to vote for the bill without even reading it. This was a vote to eliminate the Constitutional Bill of Rights, which has defined American freedom for 200 years, and it was accomplished when legislators voted for the bill without even reading it.

The invasion of Afghanistan was presented as an attempt to pursue the alleged perpetrators of 9/11, yet it had been discussed for years prior to the tragedy and actually planned in the months before the attacks on New York and Washington. Statements by Zbigniew Brzezinski and the Republican-written Project for a New American Century have stressed that America needed a formidable enemy to accomplish its aggressive geopolitical aims. The supposed enemy we attacked in Afghanistan was a diverse group of men from all over the world who were initially recruited, encouraged and supported by the American CIA.

The hole in the Pentagon was not made by a jumbo jet. Damage to the building was simply not consistent with the size of the hole nor the absence of debris. At the supposed point of impact, a whole bank of windows remained unbroken and there were no marks on the lawn. No airplane debris (except what was planted on the lawn) nor remains of passengers were ever found.

The president has admitted that he continued to read a story to schoolchildren in a Florida school for 30 minutes after being informed that two planes had struck New York and that the nation was under attack. He has never explained this puzzling behavior, nor how he saw the first plane hit. It was never televised, only recorded by a French crew filming firemen in New York. In that film, the plane in question does not appear to be a passenger airliner.

The plane in Pennsylvania was shot down and broke apart in midair. No other explanation can account for the wreckage, which was spread over a six-mile area, or the eyewitness accounts that describe debris falling from the sky.

Cellphone calls cannot be made from airliners in flight that are not close to the ground. As research by Professor A. K. Dewdney has shown, the emotional conversations between hijacked passengers and others would not have been possible under conditions that existed at that moment. These calls were cynical fabrications, exploiting the distraught emotions of those who lost loved ones.

Radio communications from firefighters on the upper floors of the Trade Center towers clearly indicate that fires were under control and the structure was in no danger of collapsing.

These are merely a few of the deliberately false statements made by U.S. officials about 9/11. They provide crystal clear evidence that our president, his staff, and many legislators should be indicted on charges of treason, obstruction of justice and mass murder. Above all, these evil men should be removed from their positions of authority before they implement more of their moneymaking murder schemes like the one they are now perpetrating on the innocent people of Iraq.

Otherwise, we face a future of endless war abroad and merciless repression at home.

Consider just a few more of the other unanswered questions from among the thousands of unexplained loose ends that all point to 9/11 being an inside job.

Who benefited from the suspiciously high numbers of put options purchased prior to September 11 for shares in companies whose stock prices subsequently plummeted, on the supposition that whoever was behind the hijacking was also behind most of the purchases of these put options? And what was the role of the new executive director of the CIA, Buzzy Krongard, who handled these transactions?

Why was the debris from the collapsed Twin Towers removed from the site with no forensic examination? Why was almost all of it sold to scrap merchants and shipped abroad where it would not be available for scientific examination?

Why does the government refuse to release any transcripts of communications or any records at all relating to signals of any form transmitted by those jets?

Why did so many people, from San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown to many employees of companies in the World Trade Center who failed to come to work that day, know in advance that something bad was going to happen on Sept. 11, 2001?

Why do all the major U.S. media continue to act as if none of these questions is legitimate or relevant?

Today, millions of people around the world are protesting the criminal destruction of the nation of Iraq. But these protests won't change the number of minds necessary to stop America's criminal madmen from continuing with their genocidal aim of enslaving the entire world.

What WILL stop them is spreading the realization that President George W. Bush and his billionaire accomplices in the oil industry perpetrated 9/11 as an excuse to begin the militarization of America for the purpose of world conquest.

History has shown all too clearly the deceived American people WILL support the destruction of faraway countries on phony pretexts of defending so-called freedom.

Thus the needless wars continue. Right now we watch high-tech weapons slaughter the defenseless people of Iraq. Soon it will be Iran, Syria, Colombia, Venezuela, North Korea, Egypt, Libya, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and who knows where else. All these misguided atrocities will be possible because of the hoax known as 9/11.

But the American people will not — and cannot — tolerate leaders who kill our own people merely to invent a pretext — the war on terror — to go around killing anyone they like.

If the American people DO tolerate such an insane strategy, then they clearly do not deserve to survive as a nation or a people.

[phatmonky]

Muslimah - I desperately want to think highly of you, but if you are taken in by things like this, I'm ashamed of it. I'll only spend my time on a single item, for this would all take too long for my liking.

"The twin towers could not have collapsed as a result of burning jet fuel. Most of that fuel was consumed on impact. In the south tower, most of the fuel was spilled outside the building. Heat caused by burning jet fuel does not reach temperatures needed to melt steel. What does stand out as particularly suspicious and still unexplained is that fires raged out of control beneath THREE of the collapsed towers for ONE HUNDRED DAYS, clearly indicating the presence of some kind of substance utilized in the demolition of the structures. "



I can get my friends who are chemical and civil engineers to give you the scientific reasons that this alone is an absolute laugh.

I recently had them take a look at this page - http://hawaii.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/3...248_comment.php - You see, this page is based upon the idea of traditional construction (as it even quotes the so "damning" study at the bottom)

The WTC was not built in the form of a standard Steel skeleton (a grid system), for it was requested to have more office area, and that meant no center columns. The weight of the building is fully supported by the external walls, with the floors in between acting as braces to keep them straight (imagine a tube with floors in it).

The heat of the jet fuel would not have done anything to weaken the external structure, this is right. But, it wasn't the external structure that gave way. It was the internal floors, which still held fire retardent from the 1960's. You have a single floorholding all weight from a jet liner, and all debris fallen from floors above it. If that floor gives way, it is possible (and this is the probable theory for the reason of the collapes, agreed by independent engineers!) that the floors following could cause a dominoe effect dislocating the floors before it. This is also the reason for such an implosion, rather than the buildings falling over. As the internal support gave way, the building fell in on itself.

As for the reason a fire went on for 100 days below the rubble, this shows nothing except stupidity. You have an entire office building that was on fire. When the hoover dam was built, it was laid in layers. If not, the concrete would takeHUNDREDS of years to cool! You see, there's a little deal about exothermic reactions and insulating them - When hoover dam was built, the layers were cured and cooled within a day. Look at the difference pressure and insulation does

But alas, I am done. I suppose the jews really did it too, since there was a rumor (no evidence) that all the jews walked out of the WTC before it happened

[Muslimah]

Thank u for your input

[Dan]

Bismillah

I generally stay away from 9/11 talks because I have questions but hopefully my phat little monky can answer some.

I saw on the History channel a special discussing how the towers went down due to their structure.

"You have a single floorholding all weight from a jet liner, and all debris fallen from floors above it. If that floor gives way, it is possible (and this is the probable theory for the reason of the collapes, agreed by independent engineers!) that the floors following could cause a dominoe effect dislocating the floors before it."

Due to my lack of engineering degree and the explanation from that show, this is the opinion with which I have been agreeing.

I have also seen a log fire burn for quite some time due to the amount of fuel it has so I cannot claim to know how long a fire full of building and chemicals will last. Once again, I go with what phat's saying.

I do have some questions that I am curious about and if phat has some answers I would appreciate it. I liken the 9/11 event to the assassination of JFK. Some questions will not be answered.

"The plane in Pennsylvania was shot down and broke apart in midair. No other explanation can account for the wreckage, which was spread over a six-mile area, or the eyewitness accounts that describe debris falling from the sky."

Could you respond to that please?

I do not know about all of them being jews, but I have heard that an unusually large amount of people were not at work in the towers or surrounding areas that day. Was a holiday going on or something? Is that true?

Any other issues that you have input on I would like to hear about, please.

Just because I am muslim does not mean that I see the villian everywhere, but I do see it in the Patriot Act. What was going on in our minds to allow such a clear abrogation of the Bill of Rights to be passed?

If I happen to know OF someone who unbeknownst to me is involved with terrorist activity, I can be put in prison without due process, without a speedy trial, and without bail in an undisclosed location. That to me is like saying the people who live in neighborhoods where gangs shoot at one another are also accountable for those crimes. The neighbors and co-workers of killers are also accountable for those crimes. They knew the people. They should have known better.

The line between patriotism and nationalism is blurred. Remember the true patriots of our country? They were actually standing against the government of the time because they saw it as wrong. The nationalist were the ones who stood by Britian no matter what.

This is the era that we live in. No longer can someone question the president or they will be labeled as anti-American. Whatever our government says, we do. Did we as Americans really want to go back to Iraq or were we just letting the government do as they want because we guess that they know best? Or were we afraid of being labeled as unAmerican? Did it not seem odd that the very first reconstruction contract went to Cheney's former company? We shrug this off as blood continues to spill.

Last question for phatmonky even though my bias is already apparent, How does the Patriot Act balance out? Does it provide more good than it does restricting rights? I will try to be open minded with the information you give. If you do not have the time, I understand and will not take it as you not being able to get the answers. I appreciate your assistance.

May Allah forgive my shortcomings and have Mercy on me.

[MichelleSeeking]

The "Patriot Act" scares the daylights out of me. Now anyone, anywhere can be labled a "terrorist" and *POOF* they're gone. I'm here perusing Muslim websites and Muslim message boards while looking over my shoulder wondering, "Am I being observed?" I don't see anything remotely Patriotic about the Patriot Act. It's a well-timed power grab aimed at the rights and freedoms that make us American.

[phatmonky]

[

Dan, as always, I very much appreciate your input, despite me often not agreeing You are always full of thought, and I don't think I have ever seen you just accept something because you heard it - I admire such a quality very much

Before I begin, I am going to be running some errands soon, so if I am lacking on a answer to one of your several questions, just let me know and I'll be happy to add more input.

Starting with the statement about flight 93 and 6 miles of wreckage. The furthest wreckage was 8 miles away, and was a piece of burnt paper foudn in a residential neighborhood. This story was all over the place, but I've yet to see pictures of diagrams from any real source showing where the bulk of the large debris was. Let's be honest here - paper, small items, etc. would have no problem traveling by wind and water (the lake the crash took place near). This is the only amount of information I've been able to confirm online. This, along with the phone calls of passengers telling their loved ones that they " are going to do something" shortly before this. adds to the theory that a struggle insued and the plan was crashed purposefully or accidentally by one side or the other.

Scenario two is that the plane is shot down. I am not able to find any evidence backing this, but I have no moral dillema with such a thing (for the record). I just wish flight 93 was as well documented and studied as the other crashes.

Again, there isn't any evidence supporting there being any less people at the WTC that day than any other time. I followed all the links about the jews, and the supposed internet message on the news group (I'll see if I can find it on google's UUnet archive later if you'd like), and it's all just.....well extremely vague with no evidence.

I don't claim to know all that has happened, simply that all of my time and research on this points to some basic theories, but I guess they aren't as exciting as a good conspiracy.

By mentioning the jew comment I didn't mean anything toward muslims - just mentioning a baseless theory that I always hear - Thing is, jews did die in the WTC, and there werent 5000 of them there for that many to leave.

I must confess, that despite my itending to do so, I have not read the entire text of either patriot act yet I do however know that every court looking at it has declared it constitutional, therefore your statement about the bill of rights isn't so accurate What I do not like is the misuse of it! If it is designed for terrorism, it shouldn't be used for drug runners and others, in which the money is not funding said terrorism. I don't agree with focusing on people in this country that are from certain countries and already here - if we are looking for illegals, let's get them all out at once, not just a certain group.

I do however support increased screening at airports and for visas, from countries in which the climate breeds fanatiscm. If I go to Afghanistan I'll be killed or kidnapped. This is what I deal with when traveling abroad - I do not see a problem with a picture at the airport of people from certain countries (minding you said list is not static and countries are able to be added and removed), and I will not make apologies that a majority of people in many of those countries are muslim. It is fanatics (which are in fact in a certain region) that are the problem, not muslims.

As for my final thoughts on the patriot act - I always loved the saying "those who would trade freedom for safety deserve neither". Some of the patriot act is needed, some I see a great ability to misuse it - I personally will be happy when it is not renewed (it is a timed document) and we surgically apply the good and not the bad.

If we really want to discuss 9/11 and outcomes, why don't we talk Guantanamo - that always proves to be a wildcard in conversations

[phatmonky]

oh, and you mentioned whether we really wanted to go to Iraq or not -

Personally, I supported it. I will take the time later to fully explain if you wish for my reasoning, but I do not support the follow through.

Bush, yes I elected him, has done many things I wanted, and then gone and screwed it all up. Our Public relations sucks! Our follow through very often is extremely lacking!

I'll expand later I'm off!

[Dan]

Bismillah

I appreciate your reply. The greatest part of the Patriot Act that I have problems is its seemingly universal application to what was supposed to be a focused area of problems. I do not agree with the application of laws in instances where they were never intended to be applied. There are certain aspects of the Act that can be manipulated in such a manner. If laws are being passed, especially when it comes to the right of citizens, then they need to be specific. Do you see due process as being a right of every citizen of the U.S.? The Bill of Rights does and the Patriot Act does not. There divergence is there. I ask which supercedes which.

Expansion on your part is appreciated.

[Muslimah]

Phat u dont need to quote someone's whole post, the poster knows what is in his/her post.

and u r still sticking tongue at people have no idea why sobhan Allah