German Catholics Urge Full Rights To Muslims

[Muslimah]

German Catholics Urge Full Rights To Muslims

"The Islamic-Christian dialogue in Germany is of the Catholic Church's priorities," Leman

By Khaled Schmitt, IOL Correspondent

BONN, September 26 (IslamOnline.net) – In a new bold step towards ending religious discrimination in Germany, the council of Catholic bishops called on all institutions to secure legitimate rights to the three-million-estimated Muslim community and positively interact with them.

The council members decided at the end of their meeting Wednesday, September 24, to exert all efforts needed for Muslims to get the rights entitled to them legally and constitutionally, read a document issued out of the gathering, a copy of which was sent to IslamOnline.net.

Entitled "Christians and Muslims in Germany", the 200-page document contained the council's adamant support for putting Islamic teachings on the curriculum of Muslim students in public schools and providing halal food at work places, schools and universities.

More Mosques

The document called on local governments to facilitate procedures for building mosques in the country and allowing Azan (call for prayers) to blare out and certain areas be allocatted for Muslims to do their five-time prayers.

It urged opening up the society to Muslims and showing a greater degree of respect for their burial rituals by, for example, providing suitable graves and encouraging up the work of Islamic burial societies.

Hijab Still Suspending

In the meanwhile, the council of Catholic bishops declined to comment on the issue of preventing Muslim women teachers from wearing hijab in public schools, but expressed regret over the inability of Catholic Church to intervene for their help.

But the document carried the bishops' support of the Muslims' demands as legitimate and normal, adding they are concerned as Christians about showing the true image of religious freedom in the country.

In return, it called on Arab and Islamic countries to alleviate restrictions on their Christian minorities, noting that the restrictions do not mean identically tightening measures on the Muslim community in Germany.

More Dialogue

Head of the German Catholic Church, bishop Karl Leman, said the document is part of a series the body has begun to publish since 1982 as part of efforts to promote ties between the country's Catholics and Muslims.

Long years since the beginning of the Christian-Islamic dialogue, Leman admitted, Islam is still not introduced well here because of negative stereotypes long etched into the minds of people of the European country.

Nevertheless, Muslims showed all along last decades readiness for dialogue and interaction with the society, but Germans shied away from engaging in any cooperation with their Muslim neighbors, he said.

Halting Islamophobia

Leman said his institution had formed groups of priests, media specialists and psychologists to remove all preconceived ideas on Islam and Islamophobia.

He said at the end of the document that the Islamic-Christian dialogue in Germany is of the Catholic Church's priorities.

Half of Germany's population is Catholics, and the other half is protestants, but large numbers quit the two sects every year to embrace no religion.

Also, there are some 72,000 churches that are deserted facing closedown or being offered for sale because Germans are not frequenting them.

[MichelleSeeking]

It's so good to see Catholic Bishops standing by our Muslim bretheren. We Catholics have always been taught that Muslims believe in God and they go to heaven and that they are truly our bretheren. We are not taught to cut off every faith but our own and to snub non-Catholics. I sure hope that the Bishops are able to help win freedom for the Muslims in Germany.

We Catholics are always coming under fire for being respectful and peaceful with Muslims. We obviously have docturnal differences but that doesn't mean we have to hate one another. The most hilarious thing I ever saw was the scandalized reaction from non-Catholic Christians when Pope John Paul II was given a Qur'an as a gift by Muslim glergy and as a sign of respect, he kissed the Qur'an. The anti-Catholics went NUTS over that and they now claim that the Pope has added the Qur'an into the canon of Scripture and now we Catholics must must now "chant the Koran out loud daily, and pray to be delivered from Dajjal, or you will go to hell." **Sigh**

(http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/ho...hu/popkoran.htm)

I hope and pray that peaceful dialog between Catholics and Muslims will always continue. Your kindness towards me on this forum and the kindness I, an "unbeliever", was shown in the Middle East has been proof enough of Muslim hospitality!

May our Muslim brothers and sisters in Germany and all through the world be granted religious freedom, just as Christians all through the world may be granted the same.

Thanks for posting this uplifting topic!

[Muslimah]

you are welcome Michelle, we are Insh a Allah a fair board we just bring the truth

[AhmedSyed]

You are always welcome Michelle:)

The Pope has indeed been kind to muslims...he even denounced Israel!

[MichelleSeeking]

I noticed that....

It makes me wonder about the Catholic stance regarding Israel and Palestine.

[Dan]

Bismillah

In Islam we are told that the closest to us in faith are the christians.

I used to be catholic and never heard of catholics believing that muslims go to heaven. Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God. This is a major aspect of faith for getting into heaven in the catholic religion. When I converted, my mother told me that she did not believe that I was going to hell. I pointed out that I did not believe Jesus was God so according to her faith, she had to believe that I was going to hell. I told her that in order to be in a religion you cannot leave the parts you don't like and only accept the parts you do like. That is not belief.

I am not dissing on the catholics for promoting peace. I am all for that. I just have never heard that catholics believe muslims will go to heaven in all my twelve years of private catholic school.

Alhamdulillah

[MichelleSeeking]

Dan,

The Catholic position regarding "other faiths" is this:

If you honestly believe that what you believe is THE truth, then God isn't going to send you to hell just because you didn't believe in the Christian doctrines. Therefore, a devout Muslim is worshipping God and God is not going to fry them for not being Christian. It's when you believe in the Catholic faith but then "convert" in order to avoid following the rules - like, you become Baptist so that you can get a divorce or you become Buddist so you can use birth control - that your soul is in danger.

Does that make sense?

Also, if you are born and raised in one faith and that faith is all that you know, then God is not going to send you to hell for not being Christian.

And, if you are raised outside of any faith and you are honestly seeking God then God isn't going to send you to hell because no one taught you about Him. For example: if you are a native living on some remote island and you never hear about Islam, Christianity, or Judaism God isn't going to hold that against you!

God is all-merciful. Your mom is not "picking and choosing", she is acknowledging the Mercy of almighty God regarding your soul.

I'm not saying that anyone has to agree with the Catholic position - I'm just sharing what I believe.

[Dan]

Bismillah

What I am trying to say is that is not the Catholic position unless catholicism has changed in the past four years.

Who told you this or where have you read it? I have never come across anything like that in all my years as a Catholic. The dogma, the rules, the law of the church states that belief in Jesus as fully human and fully divine is a prerequesite to going to heaven.

If this has changed then it is just another example of how the catholic church has men change the religion.

During the Spanish Inquisition which was sanctioned by the Catholic church, jews and muslims were killed if they did not proclaim belief in Jesus as lord and savior. This is not following the belief of tolerance that you stated.

Granted there are people who call themselves muslims who do horrible things but they are not endorced by Islam. The problem with catholocism is that the laws of the church can be changed by men in a council. The masses used to have to be in latin and women had to cover their heads in church and the eucharist could only be accepted on the tongue. Vatican II changed that. How is that a religion sanctioned by God when it is changed at the whims of men?

If you could give me a viable catholic church endorsed reference to what you are saying then I will gladly read it and change my opinion. I am not opposed to that. But I have never, ever, ever been told this before while I was in catholic school, in a catholic parish, in a catholic church in the 21 years that I was catholic.

I am sorry for any anger that I may have aroused because I am truly trying to understand this statement of yours. Really please provide me with some references where I can see this for myself. I know ALOT about the church and am taken aback by this belief that you have told me about so I want to get my facts straight if I am wrong.

Thanks and God Bless us all

Astafirghullah

Any good that has come from this messages is only due to Allah and all the bad if from only myself and my shortcomings.

[MichelleSeeking]

Dan, I am not offended by your questions about the Catholic faith. Now I must ask you not to be offended by my next statement because I say it in all truth.

Yes, you have had a lot of Catholic education but most of the "facts" you post here are usually false or mostly false. In other words you have the right idea but then there are incorrect details that lead you to false assumptions. If you seriously are seeking the "Catholic" answer to your questions I highly recommend that you read a wonderful book titled, "Catholicism and Fundamentalism" by Karl Keating. This book addresses as huge percentage of the questions you ask - even though you are not a Christian Fundamentalist. (Spanish Inquisition included) I can sit here and type all of the answers myself but I'd basically re-write Karl's book. Why reinvent the wheel if it's already out there, right?

In the interest of answering questions - and not in the interest of converting you - I also would like to steer you towards a wonderful organization called, "Catholic Answers". They can be found at and I urge you to email them and ask the hardest questions you can think of. They'll give you better answers and resources then I can come up with. If you were here in Fairbanks I'd simply pull you over to my bookshelf and say, "Start reading! You'll find all the answers to your questions within these books!" The answers are out there - you just have to be patient and research. There are lots of resources on the Catholic Answers web page as well.

Happy hunting!

-Michelle

[SisterJennifer]

Asalaamu alikum and Peace be with you all,

I've been trying to stay out of this one, but now I'd like to share a bit of my own experiance:

Like Dan, I attended Catholic school my entire education (12 years) and my Children were attending the same Catholic school until about 3 years ago. Of course, I took the classes when the time came for their 1st confession, communion, and in addition took a Bible study which I quit about 31/2 years ago. One thing I noticed about the "spin" they put on confession was something different than the way they taught it when I was a child. When I was young, we were told that if ANYONE dies without being confessed the sould is damned to hell. My children were taught a nice happy thing about the prodical son, no mention of hell at all. Also, it was taught to them by the same priest who taught it to me. The entire approach from one generation to the next could not have been more different. From fire and Brimstone, to a rose garden.

As for Christians believing Muslims may also go to heaven, well I was told upon taking my children out of school: "God have mercy on your damned soul." In addition to the many Church members who told me I will rot in hell, and the Priest I grew up with who refused to look at me, much less return my greeting. I come from a small town. To be fair, the principal of the school (one of my teachers as a child) wished me the best of luck, said he could see that I was happy and therefore was happy for me too. He was incredibly understanding.

I'm not saying this is the common attitude of all Catholics, I know that it isn't. This is just one personal experiance. I am not attacking your faith either Michelle, I think you are a descent and thoughtful person, and that is what is important.

Peace