Can Islam co exist with non Muslims

[Guest]

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b>U know better than me that alcohol is not permissible in christiantiy and that Preists claim that what they offer during communion is not an alcoholic wine. So let us not get into that ok.</b>

As a matter of fact, I never knew that. I am not a catholic myself but was aware of the catholic ceremony of holy communion where the drinking of wine symbolises the blood of Jesus, I think.

So, we have 2 religions at least that frown upon drinking alcohol. I myself am not religious, therefor, these things are of no concern to me. Why would you be intolerant of me having a couple of beers, a glass wine with dinner and so on.

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b></b>As for Saudi Arabia, I wish I lived in a country where alcohol is not allowed in. This never contradicts tolerence. Saudi Arabia is the country where our holy places are in.

So, why not move there ? Maybe because the regime there does not allow citizenship ? Isn't the migrant workforce greater than the native citizens ?

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b></b> Can the Pope allow a Friday Prayer to be held in pubic in Vatican? I guess not. let us not even take the Vatican, in the US Muslims are not allowed to hold the call for prayer in loud speakers.

Looks like I have struck a nerve here and similar to the catholic paranioa, the Muslim paranoia surfaces.

A couple of things though. Why on earth would you want to have a Friday prayer in the vatican ? Would that not show disprepect, intolerance even, of someone elses beliefs ? For example, I would never think to walk around a mosque with my shoes on. Not because Allah commands it but out of respect for people of the mosque.

US muslims are probably not permitted to call for prayer over loudspeakers because of a local ordinance forbidding amplified sounds. This would apply to blaring out Gangsta Rap, the KKK blaring out hate messages and yes, calls to prayer whether it be Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Scientology, the Moonies or whoever and not because of US suppression of Islam. Don't let you paranoia cloud your thoughts. In a multi cultural society, we try and get along. It's a social issue, not a religious one. There is no specific law stopping the call to prayer. You could drive out to the Nevada desert and blare out the call and you would not be arrested. Of course the downside is, no one would hear it but the point is, in built up areas, loud noises are a bit of an inconvenience for the residents. Similarly, nightclubs etc are all strictly controlled by various zoning laws.

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b></b> Well, I hope you start focusing on what is not clear to u in Islam rather discussing regimes.

And this is what I am looking at. Islam does not seem to be a religion. It actually starts to look like a regime. Particularly when taking into account some of the responses I have had thus far.

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b></b>Are u an international relation student, I wonder:confused:

No I am not.

[SisterJennifer]

Well, I just want to say this:

If a person is sincerly and open-mindedly trying to understand something that is unfamiliar with him/her, time must be allowed for the thought process to take place. Sometimes, initial reactions (like first impressions) are off. I am not saying this to attack anyone personally, and I don't mean any offense.

This is a place for discussion, question and answer, etc. It is not an attempt to see who can win an argument. If that were the case everybody here would be wasting a lot of time.

Insha Allah, we are willing to answer questions to the best of our ability.

In order to have a proactive discussion I think it is important to avoid making assumptions about others. (So and so is paraniod, so and so thinks I'm on a witch hunt..etc.) Again I mean no offense, but I do hope that a more proactive discussion can take place from here on out.

Thanks,

Jennifer

[Guest]

Point of order please SisterJennifer.

In regard to the reference of paranoia, I feel I made a valid point and put forward a reasonable response on the matter of "call to prayer" over loudspeakers. To paint oneself as the victim when no such victimisation exists is a symptom of paranoia.

[AhmedSyed]

Or am I wrong here ? Was Afghanistan no where near being an Islamic state ?

Afganistan isn't even close.

US muslims are probably not permitted to call for prayer over loudspeakers because of a local ordinance forbidding amplified sounds.

Your probably right, but what about church bells?

And this is what I am looking at. Islam does not seem to be a religion. It actually starts to look like a regime.

Islam is a way of life, but unfortuantly in today's world some people have been going around and using at a way to promote their own regimes (Wahhabis, Taliban, Terrorist, etc.) These people have THEIR own version of Islam, which is far from the truth.

By the way, alchol wasn't allowed in the US for a period of time in the early part of the last century. By a US amendment that banned it.:eek:. So as you can see, the banning of alchol isn't just in muslim majority countries (I use the term "muslim majority countries" since there isn't a Kalifa state anywhere and none can even come close to them.)

[Guest]

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b>Afganistan isn't even close.</b>

Phew, thank goodness for that !!

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b></b>

Your probably right, but what about church bells?

A good point, as far as I am aware, the church bells are not amplified so maybe they are exempt from that particular city ordnace. But now that you bring it up, in the UK, I think they did away with a lot of mechanical bells and replaced them with recordings. Not 100% sure on that. In any case, I like a long lie on a Sunday so I have no problems shutting the bells down.

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b></b>

Islam is a way of life, but unfortuantly in today's world some people have been going around and using at a way to promote their own regimes (Wahhabis, Taliban, Terrorist, etc.) These people have THEIR own version of Islam, which is far from the truth.

And far be it from me to interfere with someones way of life. I am very glad of the constitution keeping (or at least trying) to keep church and state apart. So Islam is not a regime then.

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b></b>

By the way, alchol wasn't allowed in the US for a period of time in the early part of the last century. By a US amendment that banned it.:eek:. So as you can see, the banning of alchol isn't just in muslim majority countries (I use the term \"muslim majority countries\" since there isn't a Kalifa state anywhere and none can even come close to them.)

Yes, I am familiar with the prohibition. Look where that got the US, organised crime. There is no denying that alcohol bring with it a whole lot of grief and in my own view, it needs better licensing laws rather than an out right ban. Same goes with smoking which I believe is common in the Middle East.

[AhmedSyed]

Yes, I am familiar with the prohibition. Look where that got the US, organised crime. There is no denying that alcohol bring with it a whole lot of grief and in my own view, it needs better licensing laws rather than an out right ban. Same goes with smoking which I believe is common in the Middle East.

Yes, alcholoics will do anything for alcohol:) . Organized crime was on the increase. Im sure you have heard about Capone in Chicago. But they should not have allowed alchol to begin with. I don't know about you but 1/50 people on the road are drunk...a scarry statistic. No way im putting my life in their hands.

Smoking is not allowed in Islam since it harms the body. But people do it anyway and yes it is common in the middle east and anywhere you find people in general, I guess they aren't so aware of the death statistics.

[Guest]

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b>Yes, alcholoics will do anything for alcohol:) . Organized crime was on the increase. Im sure you have heard about Capone in Chicago. But they should not have allowed alchol to begin with.</b>

I disagree with you in this one. I think we all should be allowed to choose our lifestyle and those people who choose to drink make their own choices. Alcohol does bring with it all kinds of social and health problems but only if taken to excess.

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b></b>

I don't know about you but 1/50 people on the road are drunk...a scarry statistic. No way im putting my life in their hands.

You know the old saying, there are lies, damned lies and there are statistics Look at it another way, most accidents on the road are NOT due to drunk drivers. I think people using cell phones while driving are a bigger pest.

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b></b>

Smoking is not allowed in Islam since it harms the body. But people do it anyway and yes it is common in the middle east and anywhere you find people in general, I guess they aren't so aware of the death statistics.

The coming together of cultures hey ? But again, it's up to the individual really although if it can be discouraged it should be. I believe China is sitting on a medical care for cancer time bomb because of the number of people smoking which only becamepopular in the region 25 years or so ago.

[AhmedSyed]

I disagree with you in this one. I think we all should be allowed to choose our lifestyle and those people who choose to drink make their own choices. Alcohol does bring with it all kinds of social and health problems but only if taken to excess.

Even the smallest drop of it can disorient you, as my anatomy teacher told me. Ya, people make their own choices, but alcohol leans towards the down side of the scale.

You know the old saying, there are lies, damned lies and there are statistics  Look at it another way, most accidents on the road are NOT due to drunk drivers. I think people using cell phones while driving are a bigger pest.

Oh, interesting, I sure I heard that 1/50 people on the road are drunk from some sourse, forgot what it was.

Cell phones are hazardous yes...and I think you can be arrested for it now. It takes the individual's eyes off the road, the indiviual only seems to use his periferal vision.

As for smoking...many other immoral things have crept into the muslim part of the world. And have stayed there. Sad...truely sad.

[Muslimah]

<i>Originally posted by HabibHibee </i><b></b>

 

 

Looks like I have struck a nerve here and similar to the catholic  paranioa, the Muslim paranoia surfaces.  

No I am not.

as salam a`alaman itab`alhoda

No u didnt struck a nerve, and Jazaki Allah khairan Jennifer for trying to put a point of order. True. And I wonder whose nerve was struck:confused:

Sorry if I offended u by asking if you were an international relation student,

And don't worry at all about strucking a nerve as long as you are maintain a respectful position while discussing, and I hope we discuss, Insh a Allah we will try to take from Allah's Name the All Patient, If Allah the Creator treats His servants who don't even believe in Him through this Name and more like the Merciful, who I am not to be patient with someone who is seeking knowledge Habib.

I was just trying to answer your points if u remember.

Any way Jennifer presented the concept of Jiziyah quite well (tax) I have an article on that in more detail if u r interested

And finally yes Islam is a way of life and all needed rules and regulations are contained in the well protected book of Quran Alhamdulelah

Well may be this will ease the tension:)

[Guest]

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b>Even the smallest drop of it can disorient you, as my  <i>anatomy teacher </i> told me. Ya, people make their own choices, but alcohol leans towards the down side of the scale.</b>

Very interesting. Someone recently told me that people of Arab origin do not have the DNA associated for handling the toxins of alcohol in their body. I don't know if that is true or not.

It's funny how mis information is more harmfull than the truth !

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b></b>

Oh, interesting, I sure I heard that 1/50 people on the road are drunk from some sourse, forgot what it was.

Oh I don't doubt that it will be high but statisticians can be very manupulative. But again, not all accidents involve a drunk driver, so where does that leave the drivers who are sober ?

:pint:

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b></b>

Cell phones are hazardous yes...and I think you can be arrested for it now. It takes the individual's eyes off the road, the indiviual only seems to use his periferal vision.

Well this is another area of contention because the AAA says that accidents involving people using cell phones are less than accidents not using cell phones ! I think that people using cell phones are just inconsiderate rather than downright dangerous. But people do all kinds of daft stuff in their cars, put on make up read maps, drink coffee, sit with their pet dog in their laps etc etc.

<i>Originally posted by AhmedSyed </i><b></b>

As for smoking...many other immoral things have crept into the muslim part of the world. And have stayed there. Sad...truely sad.

I know you view it differently but I don't see it as being immoral I just see it as a bad choice. The health problems alone are enough to put me off. It is strongly discouraged here in California. You can't smoke in bars and restaurants which is great for me.