Polygyny Questionnaire for Brothers-NEED YOUR HELP!!!

[Hadji]

You are claiming the following is what Paul meant:
"If a woman's first husband dies, and she takes a second husband, then the woman can have sex with any man she wants, and under no circumstances will she be guilty of adultery."


Correct?

I never said that.


It is clear that Paul says that women who get married to a second husband after their first husband dies <b>isn't</b> an adulteress.


While you are saying that <b>all</b> women are adulteresses.


<b>That is a contradiction.</b>


I advise you to review your faith. God isn't the author of confusion, right?

If adultery requires "penetration of the male sex organ into the female sex organ", then muslim males can engage in oral sex with any woman they want, and not worry about being found guilty of adultery. Correct?

Once again, there is no specific type of punishment for oral sex. Yet, there are some scholars and judges that do see oral sex as equivalent to sexual intercourse. Either way, one who commits oral sex will be punished, even though the punishment may be different.


So, you are wrong, people who have oral sex can be found guilty of adultery.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


Did anyone of you listen to the links sister poly posted here?? this program is really very interesting including important info specially for those living in non Muslim countries.

[SisterJennifer]

Asalaamu alikum sister Poly,


I do have a few questions for you, trying to be as tactful as possible with regards to polygamy in USA.


In the circles in which I belong and in listening to various scholars, always I have heard the concensus is that a man living in the USA may NOT take more than one wife inside the USA. Reason being the muslim is to be a law abiding citizen, and weather you are born here or you immigrate you agree that one wife is all you will take.


I have seen and heard a few examples of people who are practicing this regardless.


May I ask what is your ethnic background?


Is your co-wife also in the USA? If so, how do you justify this practice in a land which does not allow rather than immigrating to one which permits us to practice this aspect of our deen?


Now assume a man has two wives. He cannot be legally married to both of them. Hopefully he is a working brother. Many insurance policies cover the wife and kids. Now what about the second wife? For example, she becomes pregnant, who will pay for the health care, the birth, etc.?


What about the child's doctor visits? Are they just supposed to use public systems? Or will her husband pay out of pocket which will be very costly? How can he ensure equality between them unless they either are both on public assistance, or the brother is very wealthy and able to afford the responsibility himself?


I guess that is enough for now. Jazak Allah kahirn sister for both your work and your contributions here. May Allah help us all to gain better knowledge and understanding of our deen. Ameen.


Love, Jennifer

[wel_mel_2]

Very interesting discussion between reep and Hadji, mash a Allah.


Reep said:

Well, if Canada implemented Islamic law, what would happen is that millions of hate crazed muslim fanatics would run around Canada, burying people up to their necks in dirts and killing them by smashing rocks into their faces.

This is actually what happens when the <b>Christian crusaders entered Jerusalem</b>, so if you are referring to Christian law, then yes I would agree with you, Christians would love to do that again.

I don't consider this to be a "positive result". But if you so wish, you are certainly welcome to try to force your "solution" upon Canada.

I beg all of you to find where I used the term "<b>force</b>" when I offered my solution.


I was away for about 6 days, so I will try to catch up the discussion later insh a Allah.


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory to God, peace on earth, goodwill to all.

Before trying to enlighten us that Jimmy Swaggart (<i>and many other Christians preachers and priest who were involved of similar acts</i>) are actually <b>NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS</b>, let me save your time and tell you that we are not going to believe you because protestant leaders don’t consider YOU too as a catholic to be a true believer, so God alone knows the truth.

I have no clue who Jimmy Swaggart is. But it doesn't really matter because I can only condemn the act of sin, not the person who commits it.


I can't even pass judgement on who is & who isn't a true Christian. I can only give you insight into Christ's One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church & how she teaches, governs & sanctifies me as a member.

This matter is to be left totally to the people who are involved in polygynous marriages,<b> it is none of our business actually. </b>

Then why release a book about it?

Neither do the Muslim scholars give credits to themselves after writing books or issuing an Islamic ruling, they will humbly admit the same thing, that if anything they’ve said was wrong, it is due to their limitation as human beings, but if they’ve said anything right, it is only because of Allah’s guidance. This is the teaching of our <b>prince of peace MUHAMMAD pbuh </b>, that we should be humble and always remember that we are nothing without Allah’s help.

But that creates a problem. No infallibility leads to errors of faith.

The question arise now is, do some Muslims commit the same sin? YESSSS… does Islam offers the solution? YESSSS, so don’t blame Islam and blame those Muslims who pay no heed to the commandment of God Almighty, on the other hand, <b>blame Christianity for offering no solution to this serious problem.</b>

Let me get this straight... Are you telling me that the solution to something haram is to make it halal? What difference does it make it it's practised in secret or out in the open. Objectively, it's wrong. Period!

But I think, somehow br. Wael is also under the impression that polygamy is not permitted in Christianity. I dont think FHC's offhanded comments should be taken in anyway as the Christian stance. I think she is just stating her own opinion about it.

Polygyny is a grave sin against the dignity of marriage. So is divorce, fornication, contraception, marital infidelity, unchaste behaviour, etc. As far as I know, Holy Mother Church Church is the only (divine) institution that recognizes this & safeguards the sanctity of marriage. For a whole lot more, please refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), paragraphs 1601-1666 & 2331-2400.

Of course this is a fact, I've posted before on one thread the parable that Jesus used in <b>Matthew 25:1-13</b> of 10 virgins, 5 of them married one man. Not only that in his parable he allowed man to marry 5 wives, but he also allowed all of them to stay with their husband in one room, (<i><b>for those who might not be aware, in Islam it is forbidden for the man to share the room with more than one wife at a time</b>). </i> This tale was narrated by Jesus to a society who did practice polygany, otherwise <b>what was the purpose of his parable if polygyny was not allowed?</b>


If polygamy (<b>the marriage of one man to multiple women part only</b>) was indeed forbidden in the Bible, then Jesus' parable about the 1 man and ten virgin brides is just ridiculous.


<b>This shows that Jesus himself had no problem with polygamy.</b>

:banghead:


Wael, this parable is about Christians being spiritually prepared on the day of Christ's Second Coming. He is the Groom. The Church is the Bride. The maidens are the invited guests. The lamp is the Christian faith, while the oil represents good works. This parable emphasizes the need for watchfulness until the time of our personal encounter with Christ.


Please don't approach Sacred Scripture in the same way as the Holy Quran. It'll remove you from reality & prevent you from grasping the message behind the text. But what do I know, right? I'm just an opinioned Catholic who throws her version of interpretation in the mix. There you go, I've said it, so you don't have to.

Visit this link for your reference: IRF.NET

Could you please direct us to the relevant page. I had trouble finding it. Thanks :)

FCH what exactly is your definition of adultry?? I mean your because I can get a dictionary or other sites that define adultry according to the Nazarine belief. I m interested in finding out yours??

I guess it depends because the Sixth Commandment (Thou Shalt Not Commit <b>Adultery</b>) inovolves all acts contrary to chastity (cf. CCC 2331-2400), but the definition contained in the Glossary of the CCC is as follows: <i>Marital infedilty, or sexual relations between two partners, at least one of whom is married to another party.</i> So I guess we'll start there :)


Sorry, that's as far as I got in this thread. If necessary, I'll reply to the other posts in due time.


God bless you all.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

I can't even pass judgement on who is & who isn't a true Christian. I can only give you insight into Christ's One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church & how she teaches, governs & sanctifies me as a member.

Le me inform you that Jimmy Swaggart was not (and is not) belongs to <b>"Christ's One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church"</b> in fact<b> he denies the authenticity of this Church and do not accept its Bible (RCV) as God's words, </b> and most probably, <b>reepicheep is not belongs Christ's ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH</b> too.

QUOTE(wel_mel_2 @ Oct 13 2007, 06:02 PM)
This matter is to be left totally to the people who are involved in polygynous marriages, it is none of our business actually.


Then why release a book about it?

That was a very simple comment to your sayings:

but if Muslims are going to advocate it, I guess it should be done in a liveable manner that all parties on earth are satisfied with. Miz Aziz seems happy & is a great role model for all Muslims that are pro-polygyny

So what I meant is that you should not tell Muslims how they should practice polygyny when you are in fact against it, leave it to Muslims because they were taught by Allah and His prophets how to practice this beautiful blessings. no offense intended.

But that creates a problem. No infallibility leads to errors of faith.

No one is infallible but God Almighty alone, <b>neither the Pope, nor Jesus himself was infallible</b>. Jesus himself was so angry when somebody called him GOOD, and he declared that there is no good but one, that is God, <b>now I wanted to see his reaction if somebody calls him or the Pope infallible. </b>

Let me get this straight... Are you telling me that the solution to something haram is to make it halal? What difference does it make it it's practised in secret or out in the open. Objectively, it's wrong. Period!

Yes you got it right FHC, <b>the solution to something haram, is to make it halal,</b> For example:


I am a single, do not want to commit fornication, then I got married to protect myself from Zina, in this case, <b>something haram was about to happen by committing fornication, then by Allah's help I've made it Halal by getting married.</b>


I have a wife, she is barren, or she got very sick that she can't look after me anymore, then I saw another kind sister who was looking for a husband to support her, so I simply married her so that she can look after me and after my sick first wife too. In this case, again, <b>something haram (adultery) might have happened if I didn't take a second wife, and so it was substituted by something which is Halal i.e marriage.</b>


In this case, there is nothing wrong, Abraham and David and almost all prophets got married more than once and God Almighty blessed all of them <b>and said nothing about polygyny being bad thing. </b>


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Jesus himself was so angry when somebody called him GOOD, and he declared that there is no good but one, that is God,</b>


You are only partially correct. To paraphrase what Jesus was saying:


<i><b>"You call me good. But, we know that only God is good. Therefore, by calling me good, you are saying that I am God. Correct?"</b></i>

[reepicheep]

<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: reepicheep is not belongs Christ's ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH too. </b>


I don't understand that sentence, so I can't comment. Please rephrase.

[Hadji]

"You call me good. But, we know that only God is good. Therefore, by calling me good, you are saying that I am God. Correct?"

Hmm... That doesn't sounds very likely to me. Jesus wasn't anywhere close to being as blunt as that. Even if he meant that, the ruler couldn't have known what Jesus was trying to tell him. Furthermore, Jesus focuses on the commandments and not on the issue of his divinity.


You are supposed to extract beliefs from the Bible instead of interpreting the Bible to match your beliefs.


Anyways, I could be wrong. Do you have evidence to why he could have meant what you think he meant?

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

"You call me good. But, we know that only God is good. Therefore, by calling me good, you are saying that I am God. Correct?"

REEP. I will just repeat what brother Hadji have said.

You are supposed to extract beliefs from the Bible instead of interpreting the Bible to match your beliefs.

I don't even call this an interpretation!! this is nothing but twisting the Bible.

reepicheep is not belongs Christ's ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH too.
I don't understand that sentence, so I can't comment. Please rephrase.

FHC claims that Christ's ONLY church is the CATHOLIC. do you agree with that claim? are you belongs to the CATHOLIC CHURCH which is according to FHC it is the Christ's ONE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH? i don't think so, i guess you are protestant and so according to FHC you are not following "<b>Christ's One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church</b>", and according to you FHC is not following the true Church of Jesus which he himself established.


Salam


Wael.