"I am both Muslim and Christian"

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all.

When a Christian prays, the person prays to God who is a part of 3, when Muslims perform Salat, they do so to the only One True Allah Who Does not consist of any parts. This is Abhraham's Allah, <b>Abraham's Allah Does not consist of 3 parts in one</b>. When a Christian prays, he/she draws the cross over the chest, and and and..kneels before status. right? this has nothing to do with Islam and cannt be acceptable.

I'm aware of our different perceptions of God/Allah, but ultimately, there is only One Creator & Benefactor of humankind. It's not like the Most Holy Trinity (3 Persons, 1 Substance, NO PARTS) created Christians & Allah (SWT) created Muslims. We are under the Divine providence of One God who loves, cares & draws all souls to Himself.

Furthering Faith Hope Charity point when Redding leads a Christian congregation in prayer I see no objection to this as long as she does it in accordance with Islamic teaching. If she prays in the name of God and there happens to be a christian congregation I cannot see what is wrong with this.

Although she & I belong to different Christian traditions I must say I agree with you. I don't see anything wrong with her congregation praying to the One True God as best they know how. If He really is Omnipresent, Omnipotent & Omniscient then no one can claim Him as their own or limit His capabilities.

This is weird, because according to Christian dogmas, salvation can only be obtained through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, in other words, if you don't believe in the crucifixion, you don't obtain salvation.

The first part is spot on. The "in other words" part isn't compatible with Catholicism.

No, you direct your prayers to Jesus pbuh, or to the father, son and holy ghost. We direct our prayer to the one who created Jesus pbuh and the one who begets not nor was He begotten and there is nothing comparable to Him.

Whether it's Allah (SWT) or the Most Holy Trinity (one & the same if you ask me), all I know is that my prayers are always answered. Thanks be to God.


I won't intrude in your discussion on Christology. I think it's pretty obvious where I stand.


Thanks for your time & God bless you all.

[Karbala]

Assalam Alaikum

The "in other words" part isn't compatible with Catholicism.

Interesting would you be so gracious as to expand on that?


I would disagree with Shabeer Ally and Deedat as well since the idea of someone being crucified and surviving is a bit of a stretch of the imagination.


I also disagree that Judas replaced Isa on the crucifix, the only evidence for that being the Gospel of Barnabus being extremely unreliable.


Personally I believe in the incident narrated by Ibn Abbas through Ibn Kathir that one of Isa's disciples volunteered to be crucified and he was crucified in Isa's place. http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12730


But the point is I wouldnt judge anyone who interprets the Quran to mean that Isa died and then was resurrected. I would disagree with this interpretation but I dont think this makes this person a bad muslim as long as he/she is sincere.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

This is weird, because according to Christian dogmas, salvation can only be obtained through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, in other words, if you don't believe in the crucifixion, you don't obtain salvation.
<b>The first part is spot on. The "in other words" part isn't compatible with Catholicism</b>.

If no Crucifixion, no death and no resurrection of Jesus pbuh, and so if you don't believe in Crucifixion according to your church and Paul, then your faith is in vain and your preaching is in vain.


Salam


Wael.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


If this is what Deedat and Aly are saying, with all due respect, this is in contrary to Quran. Quran is very clear on this, we dont need to use our imagination. Actually it is a fundamental issue.


"And because of their saying (in sarcastic boast), "We killed Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah," - <b>but they killed him not, nor crucified him,[/
b] but the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man</b>, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they did not kill him" (Quran 4:157)


It does not need any interpretation, he was not even put on the cross. THis is the core of interest, who was the resemblance, this is not important, but rather the important point is that a resemblance was put there. It is very essential in Islam to fully believe that he was not even put on the cross. If anyone says otherwise, the person, regardless of the level of knowledge is wrong and in contrary to Quran. May Allah Reward the brothers deedat and Ali. Someone might say the word nor crucified him may bear the sense of being put but not crucified. No, in such case Allah Would not Have preceeded it with killed him not. But for Allah To Make sure he was not even put on the cross, Make it so clear by Saying: Killed him not nor crucified him. Then it wasnt that he hasnt been killed and also not put on the cross.


The evidence brother Karbala that someone replaced Eassa salla Allah A`lyhee wa sallam.on the cross is not Barnabus, but rather the Ayah I quoted for u.

Assalam Alaikum


<b>I would disagree with Shabeer Ally and Deedat as well since the idea of someone being crucified and surviving is a bit of a stretch of the imagination. </b>


I also disagree that Judas replaced Isa on the crucifix, the only evidence for that being the Gospel of Barnabus being extremely unreliable.


Personally I believe in the incident narrated by Ibn Abbas through Ibn Kathir that one of Isa's disciples volunteered to be crucified and he was crucified in Isa's place. http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=12730


<b>But the point is I wouldnt judge anyone who interprets the Quran to mean that Isa died and then was resurrected</b>. I would disagree with this interpretation but I dont think this makes this person a bad muslim as long as he/she is sincere.

We dont judge but this person would need to immediately correct his/her stance, because this is a fundamenal belief it is foundation to the Muslim position from Essa salla Allah A`lyhee wa sallam.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Bismillah
as salam alykom


If this is what Deedat and Aly are saying, with all due respect, this is in contrary to Quran.

Brother Deedat was trying to use his wisdom to prove from the Christian Bible that Jesus was not killed, he was presenting a case from the biblical stories concerning Crucifixion and explaining to his Christians audience that they’ve totally misunderstood their own book, but when it comes to the Islamic view point regarding this matter, Deedat said:


<b>What are we Muslims to say to this Christian claim? Nothing better than Allah's shattering reply to the Jewish boast!. </b>








<b>Could anyone have been more EXPLICIT, more EMPHATIC, more DOGMATIC, more UN-COMPROMISING in rejecting the dogma of a faith than this? "IMPOSSIBLE!" is the answer. The only One Who could, would be the All-Knowing, the Omniscient, the Omnipotent Lord of the Universe — GOD ALMIGHTY Himself! </b>


<b>The Muslim believes this categorical Quranic statement to be from God. Hence he asks no questions and seeks for no proof. </b>


<b>Had the Christians accepted the Holy Quran as the Word of God, the problem of the crucifixion would never have arisen. </b>


For more details about this subject, you can read Deedat's booklet titled: CRUCIFIXION OR CRUCI-FICTION



Salam


Wael.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


Jazakum Allah khairan katheeran Wael for this explanation.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Spirit - One God now & forever. Amen.


Assalamu alaikum :peace:

Interesting would you be so gracious as to expand on that?

If no Crucifixion, no death and no resurrection of Jesus pbuh, and so if you don't believe in Crucifixion according to your church and Paul, then your faith is in vain and your preaching is in vain.

Basically, not everyone who believes in the Crucifixion is automatically saved & not everyone who doesn't believe in the Crucifixion is condemned. Both explicit & implicit belief count. Only God can judge.


In regards to Wael's comment... that reference concerns heretics... which is a whole another story. Of course it's essential for a Catholic to have faith in Christ's Crucifixion but not everyone in the world is Catholic. They, having also been redeemed, are saved through 'Baptism of Desire'. I think I've touched on this point before.


Back to the woman in question, I'm not denying that her ideas are contradictory... she's obviously gone & invented her own religion, but she's not the first & she won't be the last. She acknowledges God so that's better than nothing. May He bless, guide & accept her works.


Take care Guys!

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.


<i>From an Islamic viewpoint, is it possible for a person to be Muslim and Christian at the same time? Is it up to a person to give up some Islamic beliefs in order to reconcile the two faiths? Is it acceptable to practice the rituals of both Islam and Christianity? How could the following argument be refuted: Redding's embrace of both Islam and Christianity can ease tensions between the two religions?</i>


Below are some interesting readings of Muslim scholars concerning this matter. Enjoy reading.


Can a Person Be Muslim and Christian at the Same Time? By Dr. Jamal Badawi


On Common Ground, Not Common Doctrine; By Sheikh Ahmad Kutty


One Religion or Two? By Idris Tawfiq


Can You Reconcile Islam and Christianity? (Live Dialogue) by Prof. Shahul Hameed


Salam


Wael.

[Hadji]

Basically, not everyone who believes in the Crucifixion is automatically saved &<b> not everyone who doesn't believe in the Crucifixion is condemned.</b> Both explicit & implicit belief count. Only God can judge.

Oh? I thought that not believing in the crucifixion means that you don't believe in the sacrifice of Christ. Isn't believing in Christ's sacrifice the only way to be saved?

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.


I guess FHC is wrong because according to Christianity (<i>including Catholicism</i>) that if no crucifixion, then no death, and if no death, then no resurrection, and if no resurrection, then their faith is in vain and their preaching is in vain, unless somebody else will suggest that Jesus pbuh died in some other ways (not by Crucifixion) to save humanity from sins.


Salam


Wael.