Qadar

[abdulwalee]

In The Name of Allah the One free of all defects He <b>begets</b> NOT nor is He <b>Begotten</b> And Nothing is His Likeness He is one the God of Abrahaam,Noah, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. I'd like to say to You F HCharity That It is true that Muslims differ on the these issue, Yet the truth is one I'd like to discuss with you regarding another issue in the best manner using wisdom free from ill-manners using that Intellect which Allah has given Us with the hope that you and I can come to an agreement to some issues which cover God, Who and How he is to be worshiped weather or not This God is in need of intermediaries, and latter I would like to introduce you to an Historical document writen some years ago. keep in mind I wont make this a personal issue nor will I bager you into becoming a muslim. My hope is to show you the truth of Islam and you'll come to be a muslim all on your own from study. First lets acualize and focus our attention on the statement In the Qur'an where Allah is addressing a group of people: <b>And they (Jews, christians and pagans) say: Allâh has begotten a son (children or offspring). Glory be to Him (Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth, and all surrender with obedience (in worship) to Him. (Al-Baqarah 2:116) </b> If posible could we have our discussion in the appropriate setting maybe the belief forum or even you may choose which room. Thanx

One Of the supplications that the Prophet taugh his Companions specifically Hasan bin Alee and e also use to supplicate during the Qunoot of the witr. was "And save me from the bad of what You have ordained" this hadeeth is authentic. Ahmad(1723) and others.


As is well known that the servent Has some free will yet It is NOT from proper adab with Allah to


1 Use the Qadaa and the Qadar of Allah as an excuse for us to abandon following His commandments and avoiding His prohibitions: see 4:165


we know that Allah did not command or forbid except that which can be acted upon or abandoned. He did not force anyone to commit acts of disobedience nor did He compell anyone to abandon obeying Him. daleel is 2:286 and 64:16 also 40:17 these ayat indicate every servent possesses actions and things he earns. he will be recompensed for his good deeds with reward and punished for his bad this will occur by the divine execution(Al-Qadaa and Qadr decree of Allah.


incidently It is not our way to argue and bicker with the muslims on these issue Qadr espesually The Sahaabah believed in it and didn't delve into it like the people of Retoric today It's Not from good adab with Allah....


<b>Ibnul al- Mubaarak said "adab is to the one with deep knowledge and understanding like repentence is to the supplicant"</b>


As salaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakathu

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom brother


Jazakum Allah khairan katheeran for your input and offer, I think the discussion of belief would be appropriate, however, I was still hoping u keep on filling in here since this is an issue rising a lot.


Let me try and put it in focus:


1. Do mankind have free will?


2. How does this free will fit within Allah's decrees and Will?


I think those two main points can be elaborated on to Insh aAllah fulfill the objective.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah

1 Use the Qadaa and the Qadar of Allah as an excuse for us to abandon following His commandments and avoiding His prohibitions: see 4:165


we know that Allah did not command or forbid except that which can be acted upon or abandoned. He did not force anyone to commit acts of disobedience nor did He compell anyone to abandon obeying Him. daleel is 2:286 and 64:16 also 40:17 these ayat indicate every servent possesses actions and things he earns. he will be recompensed for his good deeds with reward and punished for his bad this will occur by the divine execution(Al-Qadaa and Qadr decree of Allah.


incidently It is not our way to argue and bicker with the muslims on these issue Qadr espesually The Sahaabah believed in it and didn't delve into it like the people of Retoric today It's Not from good adab with Allah....


<b>Ibnul al- Mubaarak said "adab is to the one with deep knowledge and understanding like repentence is to the supplicant"</b>


As salaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakathu

salam brother Alhamdulelah, u summed it up to where we are trying to explain, however, no one is trying to misbehave or abandon the proper Adab. Thinking about it, people need to know that they are responsible, people need to be reminded that:


(What is the matter with you?) When a single disaster smites you, although you smote (your enemies) with one twice as great, you say: "From where does this come to us?" Say (to them), "It is from yourselves (because of your evil deeds)." And Allah has power over all things.


(Quran 3:165)


INsh a Allah we will try to look into this issue with the utmost adab worthy to Allah.

[abdulwalee]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


Till Abdulwalee comes back, let me tell you where exactly people are stumbling. You mean we have no free will, thus, we are not responsible for our actions. I m not responsible for being a Muslim so is FHC not responsible for being Nasrania. In other words, Allah Chose this for us, but why will Allah Judge us then?

qadr and the proper way to Understand it is in accordence to wy the Messenger of Allah and His companions understood it.....


<b>Levels of Qadr</b>


<b>Insted of asking about the qadr the advice of the Ulema is to"Be obedient to Allaah and strenuously avoid disobedience to Him. Upon us is to act, rather than to debate about matters of qadr and qadaa which we are not qualified to do". The people of knowledge also said </b>


"we should avoid questions such as: How? Why? And how can a person be taken to account for something which Allaah predecreed for him to do?


May Allah reward us with Knowledge and Hikma, Amen

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.


May the peace of Christ be with you, Abdul!

I'd like to say to You F HCharity That It is true that Muslims differ on the these issue, Yet the truth is one I'd like to discuss with you regarding another issue in the best manner using wisdom free from ill-manners using that Intellect which Allah has given Us with the hope that you and I can come to an agreement to some issues which cover God, Who and How he is to be worshiped weather or not This God is in need of intermediaries, and latter I would like to introduce you to an Historical document writen some years ago. keep in mind I wont make this a personal issue nor will I bager you into becoming a muslim. My hope is to show you the truth of Islam and you'll come to be a muslim all on your own from study. First lets acualize and focus our attention on the statement In the Qur'an where Allah is addressing a group of people: <b>And they (Jews, christians and pagans) say: Allâh has begotten a son (children or offspring). Glory be to Him (Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth, and all surrender with obedience (in worship) to Him. (Al-Baqarah 2:116) </b> If posible could we have our discussion in the appropriate setting maybe the belief forum or even you may choose which room.

Count me in! I'm all for interfaith dialogue - it's much needed! I just hope you won't be too disappointed in the end when you realize that I have no desire whatsoever of professing the shahadad - now or ever. Insh a Allah we can remain friends.


Please feel free to start a topic of your choice but before you do, check out these threads because a lot of what you have in mind has been discussed previously. Where were you a few months ago, man? :lol:


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=3836


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=4155


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=4042&st=0


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=4080


I look forward to hearing from you soon :)


As for Qadaa/Qadar, I'm more confused now than ever :confused_smile: Who controls destiny - us or Allah? The 'Levels of Qadr' link you provided suggests it's Allah, but then what role does freewill play in the overall game? Why can't I understand this? :banghead:


Thanks & God bless.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam FHC, Mash a Allah I can see how u learnt the treasure of searching.... Thank u so much :D to try and spare someone the effort....


And I was sure that u will be confused. with all due respect to brother Abdulwalee. but Allah Granted mankind a distinguishing factor"reasoning" to be able to conclude and use it properly. Insh aAllah I will continue, not only for u, but for me, and others..


So stay tuned.. :)

[Muslimah]

Praise be to Allah Lord of the Worlds, Creator of the Creation, The Eternal, prayer and peace be upon His final Messenger and all other Prophets and Messengers.


May Allah Assist me closely to continue on this topic:


First let us see what Allah Accepts, Wills for His devotees


“If you disbelieve, then verily, Allah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, so He will inform you what you used to do. Verily, He is the All-Knower of that which is in (men's) breasts.” (Quran 39:7)


“And when they commit a Faahisha (evil deed, going round the Ka'bah in naked state, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, etc.), they say: "We found our fathers doing it, and Allah has commanded us of it." Say: "Nay, Allah never commands of Faahisha. Do you say of Allah what you know not? (Quran 7: 28)


(Note: The Ayah refers to a certain evil deed that was the reason for its revelation, however, because Quran is applicable on a universal level, the same concept applies on any other evil deed that people might give an excuse of: well this is how we learnt from our parents).


Alright, now let us take an in depth look into the above two noble Ayahs and see how far a human being is responsible about his/her deeds.


The first Ayah clearly states that Allah Does not Accept/desires/wishes/expects (I d use all the previously mentioned words rather than likes). But rather Allah Wishes/ Desires / expects us to be grateful, how? By believing in Allah’s Existence and Oneness, by following the correct path, by obeying, by avoiding sins and all what Displeases Allah. Thus, can we now say, or attribute our bad deeds and actions to Allah’s Will?? Look at the second Ayah, when people make excuses that what they are doing is Allah’s Command. By the way, Ayahs of Quran might be revealed to establish a certain situation, however, we must note that they are applicable on similar situations. Like if you go and tell someone why are you drinking alcohol, not dressed up the way Allah Commands, not believing in Allah?? In many cases, you will hear, O this is what Allah Recorded for me… No, and yes. It is recorded yes, even before the person takes the action, because Allah Is the All Knowing. But not because Allah Wants this for you..Allah Sobhanhu wa Ta`la Wants us all to believe and go to Jannah.


Allah also granted mankind the advantage of reasoning. We all know what is right and what is wrong. How? Through using our mind, our reasoning capabilities granted by Allah. The reasoning capability that makes one chooses between the two paths made available.


Because Allah Is Free of all Wants, Allah Does not need to force us to obey, or maintain the correct path. Otherwise, what is the point of Creating this whole world, and receiving info about the Day After. What is the point of sending a Prophet after the other a Messenger after the other. What is point of teaching us what is wrong and what right? Simply because after been taught and equipped with reasoning, a manual, and a teacher (Prophets and messengers), we are to decide what to do and where to go and which path to pursue.


Each one of us when confronted with a test, trial, tribulation always has two options. For instance, one who looses wealth, he/she might resort to Allah, checks back his/her deeds, tries to make up, and work to get closer to Allah. Or plots a theft, a fraud, drowns oneself into alcohol, clubs, illegitimate sexual relations as a remedy to entertain or get out of mood. Does Allah Force one to do the latter, Hasha leleh, May Allah Be Glorified and Exalted.


Do we have free will? Yes we do


“Truly, We did offer the trust and moral responsibility (which Allah has ordained) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they declined to bear it and were afraid of it (i.e. afraid of Allah's Torment). <b>But man bore it. </b> Verily, he was unjust (to himself) and ignorant (of its results).” (Quran 33:72)


Not only we do have free will, but Allah Offered it and mankind accepted it.


“And no person can ever die except by Allah's Leave and at an appointed term. <b>And whoever desires a reward in (this) world</b>, We shall give him of it
; <b>and whoever desires a reward in the Hereafter</b>, We shall give him thereof.
And We shall reward the grateful.” (3:145)


It is very clear, we decide, want, initiate and execute the decision turning it into behaviour, approach and attitude. Thus Allah Helps and makes way to the direction one chose.


Why would Allah Send a Messenger after the other to teach mankind about monotheism? Why would Allah Create devil and put us to test? This would be certainly totally illogical. What is the point of Allah Teaching us about what is right and what is wrong? Because we have a free will to choose between them.


Allah Say in Quran:


“And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve" (Quran 18:29)


And Allah Say:


“And shown him the two ways (good and evil)?”


(Quran 90:10)


Why would Allah Say in Quran that Allah Showed us the two ways, showing means explaining, teaching, thru Messengers and Prophets as well as divine books.


Allah Granted mankind the advantage of reasoning which is a distinction from other creations. We are made superior because of reasoning, the ability to think and decide. Will be it given to us to be left idle? Is this logical?


But rather the ability to think and reason is given to us to ponder, decide, think of how to get closer to Allah, how to stay far from sins, how to handle situations in light of Quran and Sunnah, how to realize Allah’s Existence and admit Allah’s Oneness. If Allah Gave us the ability to reason and decide, then disabled it by not allowing us to choose, then this is contradictory Astaghfeurllah.


The whole idea is to allow us to choose, to see the good and evil and make decisions. What the purpose of sitting in a test, if the answers are determined (knowing is different).


What makes a person for example live a loose life, then thinks, reasons, sees the truth, repents to Allah, returns to Allah and start a new? First, it is the person’s free will that allowed him /her at the beginning to adopt the path as he/she desired, then also his /her ability to reason and think that provided an opportunity to see more in depth and repents. In both cases, Allah Did facilitate the desired path through Allah’s Attribute the Capable. But Allah Does not Will for mankind to go astray. It is the self desires and whispers of Shaytan.


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BTW we are explaining how mankind has free will.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


To further continue on this crucial topic:


However, an essential point must be made and stressed here, that all what we do is already recorded because Allah:


"And if you (O Muhammad) speak (the invocation) aloud, then verily, He knows the secret and that which is yet more hidden." (Quran 20:7). As we explained before the Ayah applies in general. And because Allah Knows the secret and that which is more hidden, Allah Knows ahead, not only Knows, but Recorded what we are going to do, choose, decide. In other words, all is recorded before even it happened because Allah Knows ahead that this will be the choice of the given person. However, the opporutnituy is also available for one to try and improve, make dua which actually deters the qada. Now we are focused here on the free will in terms of the attitude and approach one adopts in life.


Other areas of Qada that we have nothing to do with are: birth, death. We dont have a choice about them. For example, one might live all his/her life in a certain country or place. Suddenly this person moves, just because he/she is destined to die and be buried in another location. Also a pregnant woman may be in her home to find that she is obliged to move where she gives birth because this is where the person is due to be born.


Allah, while the person is still in the womb assigns an angle to record the person as happy, unhappy, poor, wealthy..etc. Those are the issues Allah Pre destines one for. But Allah Does not accept for us to be disobedient. I mean Allah Does not enforce the disbelief nor sin on us. This is where our choice is made. Yet, invocation and supplication deter Qada, how is that? For example one is going out of his/her house heading towards work, he/she uses the supplications we learnt from the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him for protection. The person faces an accident that should have been fatal, but because of the supplication that came on time, it detered the pre destination as proven by a hadeeth.


I think I should stop here for the reader to be able to digest, then Insh a Allah try to continue.

[Muslimah]

http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showt...=0&gopid=32496&